[flaps]

I know that some one on here that can stay calm, can tell me what the accuracy issues are with this Witty Wings F/A-18 Kestrels

I just got mine a few days ago for $22.00 and I am liking it a lot. I opened it just now.

It comes with what has to be the best stand on the Market, Metal, Good Size/Sturdy, Great Shape that is not ugly like Dragons, And it is moveable, you can get the jet in all kinds of good looking angles.

The plane has so many moving parts, Do the other mfgs have all these moving parts?

Printing of Markings seem to be very fine detail and it looks like everything is printed, no decals I dont think.

The gear is very strong, granted it's fixed down, but I guess you either get good strong fixed gear or lousy fitting loose gear that needs to be glued on anyway?

So that said and being no expert on the Real Thing can someone tell me the issues, and if possible without bashing the plane all to hell.

Like I said, I got her for $22.00, so it was a deal for a diecast with super nice stand 1/72 scale F/A-18

Flaps

[David Hingtgen]

The accuracy issues with Witty's Super Hornet involves the weapons loadout---basically all of it. If you want a detailed list, ask. Also, if it's the same colors as my VFA-102, all the greys are way too dark.

PS---Ah, the Kestrals. AKA The Flying Buttcheeks. (look at the logo sideways, though the most recent version with the 3 contrails obscures it a bit---the nickname is likely the reason for the revision)

[flaps]

Hard to tell on the color I looked up some pics on the net and it looks the same?

So the weapons are incorrect?

Funny, I had an Air Force guy that used to be a mechanic on a crew look at the plane and he thought it was very well done and he did not mention the weapons be incorrect , he new the name of every one also?

Flaps

Originally Posted by David Hingtgen

The accuracy issues with Witty's Super Hornet involves the weapons loadout---basically all of it. If you want a detailed list, ask. Also, if it's the same colors as my VFA-102, all the greys are way too dark.

PS---Ah, the Kestrals. AKA The Flying Buttcheeks. (look at the logo sideways, though the most recent version with the 3 contrails obscures it a bit---the nickname is likely the reason for the revision)

[David Hingtgen]

Does said Air Force guy know a *Naval* Super Hornet's weapons/racks/pods? Over at another forum I go to, we have a Naval weapons guy whose main job for the past couple years was evaluating Super Hornet weapons--what they can and cannot carry, in what configurations. I've saved a lot of his notes/comments over the years. Anyways, exactly what's up with the Witty Super Hornet since you asked/don't seem very convinced:

1. Color. Trust me, I've seen plenty of real ones. It's too dark. Or, just know that the F-14, 15, and 18 all use the same shades of grey, mostly. Yet the Witty Super Hornet is much darker than any other F-14/15/18 model I own. (Best greys out there are Dragon's F-15's IMHO) Technically, the Witty Super Hornet, Dragon Legacy Hornet, Dragon F-15A, and Hobby Master A-10 "Mil Killer" should all match each other exactly.

2. Weapons color. They're white. US hasn't painted stuff white since the 80's, most of the remaining white stuff was purposely used up in Desert Storm. A few bits even survived until OEF/OIF, but there's no way a Super Hornet's going to have a full load of white. Also, the AIM-9X and AIM-120 are new enough that they were NEVER white. Which are the only weapons Witty included.

3. Targeting pod. It's a FLIR pod, not an ATFLIR pod. Hornets use FLIR, Super Hornets use ATFLIR. A major component of a Super Hornet's targeting system for ground attacks. They used the one from the wrong type of Hornet. That's nothing compared to Dragon using the wrong type of Hornet rear fuselage, but still shows a lack of research ETC. Also, it's in the wrong place, a good inch or so off. Not a scale inch, a real inch. That's many feet in real life. And, it's on a totally fictionally shaped fairing. It's just wrong. (and it's not a FLIR pod's fairing either---it's unlike an Hornet pod fairing----more like an F-15/16 LANTIRN pod fairing than anything)

4. The AMRAAMs are on HARM rails. That can't happen. HARM rails carry HARMs, and nothing else. AMRAAMs on an inner or mid pylon can ONLY be loaded in pairs, on LAU-128 rails, attached to a LAU-7 (the Sparrow rail), underneath a jettison spacer adapter. It's a big, complex setup that weighs a lot and adds lots of drag. Having an AMRAAM on a HARM rail is not only technically wrong on close inspection, it's very wrong at a glance, since a small single rail is clearly not dual rails mounted on a larger rail mounted under a spacer. (Surprised "Air Force guy" didn't notice this---F-16's use the same HARM rails as Super Hornets, and nigh-identical AMRAAM rails--though F-16's only carry AMRAAMs singly, never paired)

Now, the vast majority of these weapons gaffes can be easily explained by the simple fact that the Witty Super Hornet is an exact copy of Hasegawa's kit. And Hasegawa's kit has all those same errors, even little things like the wrong color of striping on the missiles, and the wrong type of pod. (the pod fairing issue is unique to Witty though). Now, Hasegawa's instructions do specify the right color for missiles, but all their "example" models on the boxes show white missiles---they must have hired a new guy to build them who thinks missiles are still white or something. So if you copy what Hasegawa did exactly, but with metal----you get a Witty Super Hornet.

Which is also why physically, the Witty Super Hornet is excellent----they copied Hasegawa. I've removed the pod and AMRAAMs (better nothing than the wrong parts, IMHO) but never got around the cleaning it up and making it look good where stuff was removed, adding HARMs to the HARM rails, etc. (I'm kinda waiting to see if Dragon's VFA-2 re-release is with the improved mold or the old one, or if Dragon does the newer version of VFA-102's CAG)

The casting/mold of the plane itself is among the best of all 1/72 jets. The finished product is just annoyingly flawed by the paint and weapons. So close, yet so far.

[flaps]

Wow that was a lot of info and exactly what I wanted to know. Thank you.

So the aircraft itself if very good, but the weapons load and color is completely wrong. Got it.

If you painted the weapons the correct color, then it would be much closer to the real thing I guess.

Flaps

[David Hingtgen]

Yup. I plan to repaint the AIM-9X's someday, then install some HARMs. That'll make it very close. (I have no solution for the FLIR pod other than removal---though removing it made some paint flake off so I have some bare metal spots on the fuselage---going to try to get an AMRAAM there to cover it up)

[stalag8611]

Originally Posted by David Hingtgen

Does said Air Force guy know a *Naval* Super Hornet's weapons/racks/pods? Over at another forum I go to, we have a Naval weapons guy whose main job for the past couple years was evaluating Super Hornet weapons--what they can and cannot carry, in what configurations. I've saved a lot of his notes/comments over the years. Anyways, exactly what's up with the Witty Super Hornet since you asked/don't seem very convinced:

1. Color. Trust me, I've seen plenty of real ones. It's too dark. Or, just know that the F-14, 15, and 18 all use the same shades of grey, mostly. Yet the Witty Super Hornet is much darker than any other F-14/15/18 model I own. (Best greys out there are Dragon's F-15's IMHO) Technically, the Witty Super Hornet, Dragon Legacy Hornet, Dragon F-15A, and Hobby Master A-10 "Mil Killer" should all match each other exactly.

2. Weapons color. They're white. US hasn't painted stuff white since the 80's, most of the remaining white stuff was purposely used up in Desert Storm. A few bits even survived until OEF/OIF, but there's no way a Super Hornet's going to have a full load of white. Also, the AIM-9X and AIM-120 are new enough that they were NEVER white. Which are the only weapons Witty included.

3. Targeting pod. It's a FLIR pod, not an ATFLIR pod. Hornets use FLIR, Super Hornets use ATFLIR. A major component of a Super Hornet's targeting system for ground attacks. They used the one from the wrong type of Hornet. That's nothing compared to Dragon using the wrong type of Hornet rear fuselage, but still shows a lack of research ETC. Also, it's in the wrong place, a good inch or so off. Not a scale inch, a real inch. That's many feet in real life. And, it's on a totally fictionally shaped fairing. It's just wrong. (and it's not a FLIR pod's fairing either---it's unlike an Hornet pod fairing----more like an F-15/16 LANTIRN pod fairing than anything)

4. The AMRAAMs are on HARM rails. That can't happen. HARM rails carry HARMs, and nothing else. AMRAAMs on an inner or mid pylon can ONLY be loaded in pairs, on LAU-128 rails, attached to a LAU-7 (the Sparrow rail), underneath a jettison spacer adapter. It's a big, complex setup that weighs a lot and adds lots of drag. Having an AMRAAM on a HARM rail is not only technically wrong on close inspection, it's very wrong at a glance, since a small single rail is clearly not dual rails mounted on a larger rail mounted under a spacer. (Surprised "Air Force guy" didn't notice this---F-16's use the same HARM rails as Super Hornets, and nigh-identical AMRAAM rails--though F-16's only carry AMRAAMs singly, never paired)

Now, the vast majority of these weapons gaffes can be easily explained by the simple fact that the Witty Super Hornet is an exact copy of Hasegawa's kit. And Hasegawa's kit has all those same errors, even little things like the wrong color of striping on the missiles, and the wrong type of pod. (the pod fairing issue is unique to Witty though). Now, Hasegawa's instructions do specify the right color for missiles, but all their "example" models on the boxes show white missiles---they must have hired a new guy to build them who thinks missiles are still white or something. So if you copy what Hasegawa did exactly, but with metal----you get a Witty Super Hornet.

Which is also why physically, the Witty Super Hornet is excellent----they copied Hasegawa. I've removed the pod and AMRAAMs (better nothing than the wrong parts, IMHO) but never got around the cleaning it up and making it look good where stuff was removed, adding HARMs to the HARM rails, etc. (I'm kinda waiting to see if Dragon's VFA-2 re-release is with the improved mold or the old one, or if Dragon does the newer version of VFA-102's CAG)

The casting/mold of the plane itself is among the best of all 1/72 jets. The finished product is just annoyingly flawed by the paint and weapons. So close, yet so far.

David, I consider you the resident guru on Navy jets , their proper colors & liveries, and correct weapons loads. However, as in this post, I get lost by the end of the second curve, so to speak. Targeting pods, LANTRINs, AMRAAMs on HARM rail, are virtually Greek to me, since I grew up thinking 20mm and Nalpam were the hot weapons of my day. So, help me out. Can you direct me to some written sources that explain, in non-technical terms, the weapons and how and where they should be mounted? I just started collecting modern jets, i.e., A-4E, F-14 and A-6, so I'd like to understand better just what I'm buying.

[David Hingtgen]

Honestly, a lot of it comes from sheer observation. The U.S. Navy Go check their photos. Type in "Super Hornet" or "AMRAAM" or "VFA-103" and see what comes up.

Also, honestly---IMHO, the best source for everything from paint colors to weapons loads to physical differences between variants are NOT books, magazines, or anything official-----but reviews of plastic model kits and the threads where people b*tch about what's wrong with them. I learned 10x more about what makes an F-15E an *E* from reviews of F-15E model kits (and how they're all wrong) than from reading numerous F-15 books.

Want to learn modern weapons? Go buy a few weapons pack from Hasegawa. See how they show how to mount them, and the rails and racks needed.

That said, feel free to ask me anything. Also, I'd point you to ARC: ARC Air Discussion Forums Lots of knowledgable people there. I've asked many questions there and learned a lot. Also, any other question has probably already been answered. You'd be amazed how many modelers can stump even a pilot with their questions about "Lot 12 vs Lot 13 Hornet ejection seats", or point out something they never noticed. Modelers pay attention to every square inch of a plane, and look very closely for differences between each subtle variant.

Sorry I can't really give you a link for "modern US Naval weapons and how they're used". I have a few suggestions:

1. Squadron's "In Action" series. Cheap, easy to find in many large hobby shops and online, and good for basic info on the weapons of any particular plane. Not totally accurate, but often very cheap and can form a good basis to start with for the major variants etc. Just about every plane ever exists in that series. Just look for "F-15 in action" "F-14 in action" "SR-71 in action" "T-6 Texan in action".

2. "Detail and Scale". Very few produced over the last few years, many old ones impossible to find. But like better versions of "In Action"----and they've done a wonderful one on the Super Hornet: Amazon.com: F/A-18E/F Super Hornet: Books (I have the first printing with a different cover--don't know if the new printing has new info or just a different cover)

[smartd]

Check out this site for tomcat, info


Grumman F-14 Tomcat

[muesingman]

Originally Posted by David Hingtgen

Does said Air Force guy know a *Naval* Super Hornet's weapons/racks/pods? Over at another forum I go to, we have a Naval weapons guy whose main job for the past couple years was evaluating Super Hornet weapons--what they can and cannot carry, in what configurations. I've saved a lot of his notes/comments over the years. Anyways, exactly what's up with the Witty Super Hornet since you asked/don't seem very convinced:

1. Color. Trust me, I've seen plenty of real ones. It's too dark. Or, just know that the F-14, 15, and 18 all use the same shades of grey, mostly. Yet the Witty Super Hornet is much darker than any other F-14/15/18 model I own. (Best greys out there are Dragon's F-15's IMHO) Technically, the Witty Super Hornet, Dragon Legacy Hornet, Dragon F-15A, and Hobby Master A-10 "Mil Killer" should all match each other exactly.

2. Weapons color. They're white. US hasn't painted stuff white since the 80's, most of the remaining white stuff was purposely used up in Desert Storm. A few bits even survived until OEF/OIF, but there's no way a Super Hornet's going to have a full load of white. Also, the AIM-9X and AIM-120 are new enough that they were NEVER white. Which are the only weapons Witty included.

3. Targeting pod. It's a FLIR pod, not an ATFLIR pod. Hornets use FLIR, Super Hornets use ATFLIR. A major component of a Super Hornet's targeting system for ground attacks. They used the one from the wrong type of Hornet. That's nothing compared to Dragon using the wrong type of Hornet rear fuselage, but still shows a lack of research ETC. Also, it's in the wrong place, a good inch or so off. Not a scale inch, a real inch. That's many feet in real life. And, it's on a totally fictionally shaped fairing. It's just wrong. (and it's not a FLIR pod's fairing either---it's unlike an Hornet pod fairing----more like an F-15/16 LANTIRN pod fairing than anything)

4. The AMRAAMs are on HARM rails. That can't happen. HARM rails carry HARMs, and nothing else. AMRAAMs on an inner or mid pylon can ONLY be loaded in pairs, on LAU-128 rails, attached to a LAU-7 (the Sparrow rail), underneath a jettison spacer adapter. It's a big, complex setup that weighs a lot and adds lots of drag. Having an AMRAAM on a HARM rail is not only technically wrong on close inspection, it's very wrong at a glance, since a small single rail is clearly not dual rails mounted on a larger rail mounted under a spacer. (Surprised "Air Force guy" didn't notice this---F-16's use the same HARM rails as Super Hornets, and nigh-identical AMRAAM rails--though F-16's only carry AMRAAMs singly, never paired)

Now, the vast majority of these weapons gaffes can be easily explained by the simple fact that the Witty Super Hornet is an exact copy of Hasegawa's kit. And Hasegawa's kit has all those same errors, even little things like the wrong color of striping on the missiles, and the wrong type of pod. (the pod fairing issue is unique to Witty though). Now, Hasegawa's instructions do specify the right color for missiles, but all their "example" models on the boxes show white missiles---they must have hired a new guy to build them who thinks missiles are still white or something. So if you copy what Hasegawa did exactly, but with metal----you get a Witty Super Hornet.

Which is also why physically, the Witty Super Hornet is excellent----they copied Hasegawa. I've removed the pod and AMRAAMs (better nothing than the wrong parts, IMHO) but never got around the cleaning it up and making it look good where stuff was removed, adding HARMs to the HARM rails, etc. (I'm kinda waiting to see if Dragon's VFA-2 re-release is with the improved mold or the old one, or if Dragon does the newer version of VFA-102's CAG)

The casting/mold of the plane itself is among the best of all 1/72 jets. The finished product is just annoyingly flawed by the paint and weapons. So close, yet so far.

Hey David,

I also own one of the "Flying Buttcheeks´s" superbug and I am also considering some "enhancements" regarding the weaponery.

First question: If the ATFLIR is mounted, is it still possible to shoot an AMRAAM from the port fuselage rail? (I suppose not, correct? this would mean, if there´s an AMRAAM on the left fuselage rail, there can be no ATFLIR pod be installed?)

Second question: I know that the AIM-9´s and AMRAAMs have to be painted grey, but HARMs still remained white, correct? (on German Tornadoes, the always were white).

Third: question: can a pair of GBU-12s simply be glued under the rails between the fuel tanks and the (wrongly present) AMRAAMs on the model?


Or better asked, I am planning to do the following:

1. removing, repainting, and re-installing of the AIM-9s.

2. removing the (wrong) FLIR pod.

3. Omitting an ATFLIR pod and installing AMRAAMs on the right AND left fuselage rail.

4. installing two pairs of GBU-12s on the empty rails.

5. removing the white AMRAAMs and glueing white HARMs instead.

Would I make a mistake by doing this? Thank You in advance for Your help, I am a dope regarding my knowledge about modern aircraft weaponery.