[Andrew]

Originally Posted by flyXwire

Anyway, point of story....on the Saturday morning the ground crew opened up the nose radome. There we were, cameras ready, .... nothing. The nose radar had been removed. The crew could not get nose closed properly so they attacked it with ball peen hammers. The whole bloody airplane looked like it had been done over by a hammer wielding moron.

Maybe Witty got it right. These things were flying trucks and looked like it.

You're not too far off the mark with your observations, smartd! I too saw a MiG-29 upclose and in person at the Salinas Airshow, CA back in the early 90s myself.

To this day, I don't know how the pilot was able to pull-off a "Cobra Manouever" demonstration without that thing falling apart (my comment is "toung-in-cheek" in mind) in midair! I'll admit that the Soviet pilots are superb flyers bar none.

[/quote]

Every country has their good pilots. Heck, before World War 2, a lot of people thought the Japanese couldn't fly and aim well. Many learned the hard way of how much hot air was in that statement.

[Louie]

I think Witty is very much an acquired taste. I loved the F-15 and F-16 by them and the rivet counters tore them both to shreds the F-15 more than the F-16. No diecast model aircraft made is accurate enough to stand up to such withering scrutiny. I buy for looks and feel. This Mig single seater looks great to me so I feel I may have to buy it!

[planejunky]

Originally Posted by flyXwire

You're not too far off the mark with your observations, smartd! I too saw a MiG-29 upclose and in person at the Salinas Airshow, CA back in the early 90s myself.

To this day, I don't know how the pilot was able to pull-off a "Cobra Manouever" demonstration without that thing falling apart (my comment is "toung-in-cheek" in mind) in midair! I'll admit that the Soviet pilots are superb flyers bar none.

Let's not forget that those demo flights were flown by MiG company test pilots (as were the Sukhoi demo's) not Russian AF pilots. With the Russian Air Force undertrained and in pretty bad shape overall, my money would still be on a western pilot winning the day. Better training due to more available flying hours would soon give the western pilot a clear advantage.

[Berkut76]

Originally Posted by planejunky

Better training due to more available flying hours would soon give the western pilot a clear advantage.

Last Summer during a routine flight a Russian Su-27 pilot became disoriented and wandered into Lithuanian airspace. Three Luftwaffe Phantoms (Lithuania doesn't have its own air force) went to intercept, but couldn't find the Russian intruder and returned to base. After running out of fuel, the Russian pilot ditched his plane in a field. Look up online how little territory Lithuania occupies.

After this incident, the Russian Air Force commander swore that this air force major wouldn't fly any advanced aircraft ever again as there was nothing wrong with a plane. On behest of Lithuanian government, the Luftwaffe planes rotated back to German before their deployment was scheduled to end.

This incident highlights the sorry shape, BOTH NATO and Russian air forces (with an exception of the US) are truly in.

As far as the Russian Air Force is concerned, it's in much better shape then it ever was post-USSR collapse, but is highly uneven. Su-25 and Su-24 attack squadrons are in excellent shape in terms of pilot and ground crew training due to extensive combat deployment in Caucasus region. The same goes for Naval aviation (just check the Russian flying routines in the midst of Norwegian oil rigs), and elite PVO units. However, universally the Russian air force with an exception of Putin's darling, strategic aviation suffers form the lack of spare parts and worn out equipment.

So, if the US Air force is not taken into account, an outcome of hypothetical fight between NATO and Russian AF pilots is impossible to predict due to sorry state of equipment on both sides and lack of training on both sides.

Regards,

Sergey

[flyXwire]

Originally Posted by planejunky

Let's not forget that those demo flights were flown by MiG company test pilots (as were the Sukhoi demo's) not Russian AF pilots. With the Russian Air Force undertrained and in pretty bad shape overall, my money would still be on a western pilot winning the day. Better training due to more available flying hours would soon give the western pilot a clear advantage.

Excellent point and I concur with your assessments. I'm also aware that company test pilots flew those MiG and Sukhoi fighters - just look at how superb they've handled themselves during those numerous accidental emergencies from the European airshows of past. One such standout is Pougachev (sp?). If they had more of his kind, I bet the Russian airforce would be a force to recon with, imho.