[Elmer]

The recent discussion here and at the DAF regarding Hobby Master's possible Hawker Fury piqued my curiosity about the number of possible model subjects out there. So... I looked in one of my reference books which lists worldwide fighter types and subtypes (or major variants of types) only. There are 23 jets, 107 monoplanes, and 266 bi/tri-plane or hi-wing mono listed for worldwide manufacturers listed alphabetically by name A through C. I stopped there because it was a laborious process to count all. Obviously, if this is extrapoted to all manufacturers D through Z, the list would go into the thousands... and this is fighter type only. Granted, many of these are prototype, or types with only a few being built, or built for one nationality only. But, for the point of discussion, if I extrapolate these findings and give a rough estimate of 3,000 worldwide fighter types/sub types built... and say 20% of these went into relatively large production with relative wide use= 600 types/sub-types. Now for the point of discussion, let's say I inflated these numbers. So lets reduce the numbers to 2,000 with 10% going into large production with wide use= 200 types/sub types. Thats a lot of possible subjects to model. And this is fighter type only... no accounting for attack, bomber, recon, cargo, etc.

Where am I going with this? Well, I want to talk 1:48 scale here and attempt to dialogue 1:48 collectors whether your collection is small or many. Many folks talk about bi-planes and monoplanes as good subjects for 1:48, with jets being a bit large (although many jets, I believe, would have a comfortable size at 1:48). Looking at the above data, jets account for approximately 5% of the total. If I eliminate this from the reduced numbers above, that would leave approximately 190 possible prop driven subjects, fighter only. I have no idea how big this number would become if we included, for example, single engine attack, bomber, recon, etc.

In the 2.5 years I have been following MHI and MHII, there have been approximately 14 prop driven 1:48 molds by Corgi, Hobby Master, Carousel 1, and Franklin Mint. At this production rate, it would take 38 years to model all of these subjects. In 38 years from now, I will be 81 years of age, if I am still around. What do I want as a collector? I want a diverse collection of 1:48 fighter types that are casted from a well-tooled mold. This would include accuracy in shape, dimensions, scale, a fair amount of detail, with some display options. However, my first priority would be given to iconic types, mostly from WWII including P-38, P-39, P-40, P-47, P-51, P-61, F4F, F6F, F4U, Spitfire, Hurricane, Me 109, Fw 190, Me 262, La-5/7, Yak 7/9, MiG 3 and A6M. Many of these have been modeled. Some have been modeled nicely. Others not so nice. My second priority is to build a colleciton of all USSAC / USAAF Pursuit aircraft beginning with P-1 to P-80 (and throw in an F-82 cause I am a Mustang Freak). Fewer of these have been modeled.

Ok... here is my point: many say that their Franklin Mint/Armour Mustangs, Corsairs, Spitfires, Me 109s, Fw 190s, Zeros, P-38s, P-40s, P-47s, Me 262s, Hellcats are fine for now. It usually goes like this "I can wait for a better model, but first I want something different." Looking at the above data, it appears to me that we could wait a long, long time if manufacturers first model the more obscure / niche subjects before getting back to the iconic WWII combat types. In fact, many of us will be waiting when we expire.

I have followed MHI and MHII for 2.5 years, as previously mentioned, and not one of the Franklin Mint usual suspects has been offered in a better product, by any manufacturer. How much longer will I, or you, wait for just ONE of these to be offered as a better model, by any manufacturer? Your guess is as good as mine. But my guess is: no change in the next 2.5 years. In the meantime, obscure types like the Hawker Fury, the F3F Barrelcat, the F2A, the P-36, appear to be all that is on the horizon. While I enjoy obscure types, and want many in a collection, I continually ask myself: why do I have two nice Brewster F2As in my collection, and not a single P-51D? What is wrong with this picture?

I think it is time to seriously re-think the "I can wait for a better model, but first I want something different" thinking. If this drives 1:48 manufacturing, my collection will only include the "somethings different" and no iconic types. Or... it will include really nice F2As and really poor P-51Ds. Again, I ask, what is wrong with this picture? It is time to replace the old toolings. Manufacturing has come a long way in eight years. So... here is my plea to all manufacturers: please consider iconic types at 1:48, the usual suspects. The interest in the scale seems to be growing. I bet newly tooled usual suspects will sell... much better than current predictions.

And... I challenge my fellow 1:48 collectors to give serious consideration to what your collections will look like in thirty years, and where you want to go with them. If you are no fan of the usual suspects, then this challenge will be meaningless to you. Fair enough. But... if you are a fan of the usual suspects, ask yourself, do I want really nice biplanes with outstanding rigging, sitting next to my relatively poor by comparison Mustang, T-Bolt, Me 109, Fw 190, etc.? It appears that at least one manufacturer is listening to us.

[leeG]

First off a disclaimer. I only do 1/48 up to the start of WW 2. I live for the obscure/niche models.

If there is indeed a huge pent up demand for good molds of the "Usual Suspects," do you think you could muster enough interest (as in pre-orders, as in money) to commission a new casting? If it takes off, it might shake the manufacturers out of their lethargy. A MH2 special commission? (Sounds expensive.)

[Epapazian]

Originally Posted by leeG

First off a disclaimer. I only do 1/48 up to the start of WW 2. I live for the obscure/niche models.

If there is indeed a huge pent up demand for good molds of the "Usual Suspects," do you think you could muster enough interest (as in pre-orders, as in money) to commission a new casting? If it takes off, it might shake the manufacturers out of their lethargy. A MH2 special commission? (Sounds expensive.)

While my collection is mostly in 1:72nd scale, I have about 30 1:48s and can sympathize with those looking for a decent BF-109G, FW-190A and some other "usual suspects" in this scale. Unfortunately, it's not realistic to expect this forum to organize a special commission involving a new mold ---at $70,000--- for a 1:48th scale version of the FW-190A-8, or any other model, for that matter. Golly, we can't even organize and support a meaningful poll on the subject, let alone come to an agreement on a single aircraft, variant and paint scheme and then fund it. So far, William has mentioned forums like ours, plus vendors, trade magazines and "other" sources he and his colleagues refer to for useful inputs. But he hasn't mentioned polls. Referring back to Model Power's website poll last year regarding new warbird mold preferences, I am still amazed that this minor player got something like 35,000-40,000 responses. Even if we assume that this tally included multiple plane votes---with each respondent citing their top three choices---the net sample was about 12,000. I don't know what the traffic is like on HM's website, but assuming that it is significant and growing, wouldn't this be an ideal vehicle for HM to conduct its own poll. Say, the question in hand was posed and HM got 3000 responses from active1:48th scale warbird collectors---including 50 or so from this forum? Wouldn't the replies from a broader based and much larger sample give HM some useful guidance?

[Elmer]

Originally Posted by Epapazian

While my collection is mostly in 1:72nd scale, I have about 30 1:48s and can sympathize with those looking for a decent BF-109G, FW-190A and some other "usual suspects" in this scale. Unfortunately, it's not realistic to expect this forum to organize a special commission involving a new mold ---at $70,000--- for a 1:48th scale version of the FW-190A-8, or any other model, for that matter. Golly, we can't even organize and support a meaningful poll on the subject, let alone come to an agreement on a single aircraft, variant and paint scheme and then fund it. So far, William has mentioned forums like ours, plus vendors, trade magazines and "other" sources he and his colleagues refer to for useful inputs. But he hasn't mentioned polls. Referring back to Model Power's website poll last year regarding new warbird mold preferences, I am still amazed that this minor player got something like 35,000-40,000 responses. Even if we assume that this tally included multiple plane votes---with each respondent citing their top three choices---the net sample was about 12,000. I don't know what the traffic is like on HM's website, but assuming that it is significant and growing, wouldn't this be an ideal vehicle for HM to conduct its own poll. Say, the question in hand was posed and HM got 3000 responses from active1:48th scale warbird collectors---including 50 or so from this forum? Wouldn't the replies from a broader based and much larger sample give HM some useful guidance?

Excellent idea. Eagles International did this. But of course its poll is of little consequence to OMI or to 1:48 collectors now, as the company appears MIA.

[Cruver Collecter]

Collect predominantly 1/72nd scale, but have really warmed up to 1/48th scale models. I like seeing the lesser known aircraft being made as apposed to standard fare of the more iconic type aircraft. Hobby Master has done a fantastic job of covering some of the lesser know aircraft, and I for one am quite happy with what they have put out.

[parsig9]

Originally Posted by Elmer

Excellent idea. Eagles International did this. But of course its poll is of little consequence to OMI or to 1:48 collectors now, as the company appears MIA.

Harry has said they are not MIA, it's just that the ones they've already made are still readily available almost everywhere on the internet (except Macon Belle 600 produced)

Patty Anne is still for sale for $50 at Motormint and the other for $70 range. OMI must be scared to death to put more $ into this line right now.
I just don't think there is enough of a market for 1/48 at a high price, Look at the dumps from FM we've seen. All the C1 planes can still be had all over too and those are as good as money can buy. It's been years now...they should be gone!

[Elmer]

Originally Posted by Cruver Collecter

Collect predominantly 1/72nd scale, but have really warmed up to 1/48th scale models. I like seeing the lesser known aircraft being made as apposed to standard fare of the more iconic type aircraft. Hobby Master has done a fantastic job of covering some of the lesser know aircraft, and I for one am quite happy with what they have put out.

Well CC... your signature sums up your model preferences. What is a real plane to you is an obscure type to me. I knew my challenge would be meaningless to you... and that is OK; fair enough.

But... I would like to hear the thoughts of others who believe "real planes" are the usual suspects.

[Elmer]

Originally Posted by parsig9

Harry has said they are not MIA, it's just that the ones they've already made are still readily available almost everywhere on the internet (except Macon Belle 600 produced)

Patty Anne is still for sale for $50 at Motormint and the other for $70 range. OMI must be scared to death to put more $ into this line right now.
I just don't think there is enough of a market for 1/48 at a high price, Look at the dumps from FM we've seen. All the C1 planes can still be had all over too and those are as good as money can buy. It's been years now...they should be gone!

Valid points. EI's Mustangs are older... with a 2004 release for the first one. But... C1's are relatively new. The first P-40 release is not yet three years old. The Doras are not yet two years old. So it hasn't been a lot of years.

Take a look at the larger 1:72 market and what do you see? Some similarities. The first HM 1:72 releases are now two years old and yet many (if not most) can still be widely had. Dragons excellent T-Bolts and Mustangs are really old now, and these can still be had (although the Mustangs are now growing more rare). Time will tell, but I wouldn't be surprised to see one or two of the three HM pre-war U.S. naval F2As still kicking around in a few years... and these are modestly priced. So... perhaps we make too much of 1:48 models not selling out quickly.

[parsig9]

Originally Posted by Elmer

So... perhaps we make too much of 1:48 models not selling out quickly.

Well on the HM point, they made a lot more of their 1st ones than CW did WWI planes, or EI did. I think the Fokkers were in the hundreds is all...

Anyway, no matter to me how fast they sell, I was just trying to say that that is why others are shy to make really fine P-38s or others in this scale. It's a big investment and slow to re-coop

I'd get in line for a P-38 of C1 quality but would others and could you get $100+ for them? I don't know really.

[Elmer]

Originally Posted by parsig9

Well on the HM point, they made a lot more of their 1st ones than CW did WWI planes, or EI did. I think the Fokkers were in the hundreds is all...

Right. No quarrel here. I was just trying to point out that the first HM models were 1:72 scale, a much larger market, so proportionately, perhaps not that different.

Originally Posted by parsig9

Anyway, no matter to me how fast they sell, I was just trying to say that that is why others are shy to make really fine P-38s or others in this scale. It's a big investment and slow to re-coop

I'd get in line for a P-38 of C1 quality but would others and could you get $100+ for them? I don't know really.

Well... hopefully this thread will help us find out. I'd be in line for a C1 quality P-38 at $100.00. But if HM did it, perhaps it wouldn't be that much and we would get more liveries. And... I would probably buy each model.