[jim]

I think Epapazian hits the nail on the head when he writes that there are so many opinions, likes and dislikes amongst the forum members that it is difficult to pin down a general consensus on a subject like this.

I really do like to see the more obscure types made, but Elmers point about lets have the big players done correctly first is a very valid one.

I only collect 1/48 scale as a secondary part of my collecting, 1/72 is my main area.
However when models are made in 1/48 scale that are of high quality and detail then I am ready to purchase them at the drop of a hat.
C1s P40, Dora, and HMs Buff spring instantly to mind, but I am drifting off the point here a little.

The point is should we have high quality "usual suspects" as they are called made in 1/48 first before obscure planes.

Maybe the answer is yes if you are a dedicated 1/48 collector, but no if you are mainly into 1/72 "or" obscure types.
I have Dragon 1/72 scale P47s that are first class, would I want to repeat them in 1/48 if you get my meaning.
Why could we not have both?
Perhaps HM could look into making , say a P51D in 1/48 and see how it sells and then take it from there, although I still have doubts as to how well yet another P51 would sell.
Anyway if the P51 proved successful then HM could split its production between the mainstream and obscure types.

[Cruver Collecter]

To be honest, what is all he guff over HM making some of the obscure aircraft. If you take a look at what they have produced so far, most of it is fairly main stream. In 1/72nd they have the Nakajima B5N2, Bf 110, F6F, Ju 87, P-39, Dauntless, Avenger and soon to come Helldiver & Beaufighter (Just sticking to WWII). 1/48th scale wise they have Brewster Buffalo, Grumman F3F and a SpitfireMk XIV. Have to say out of the lot I would only qualify the Buffalo and the Grumman F3Fs as being what would most likely be considered obscure. Comes out to two out of twelve (Types not total models) WWII birds not being more mainstream type aircraft (2 out of 13 if you consider the possibility of Val). I know some folks are aching to see some of the more iconic aircraft perfected, but I have yet to see a model come out that someone could not find fault with. So if HM does come out with something like the Fury, we will be looking at them having three aircraft out of their current lot that is not the more standard type fair. Close to 80 percent of what they have put out is pretty much non obscure type aircraft. So to say that Hobby Master is currently focusing all its attention towards obscure aircraft, just does not seem to be an accurate assessment. No lets say they came out with the Macchi C.202, Polikarpov I-16 and a few more of these types,,,,, wait a tick,,,, wouldn't mind seeing that. Must get back on track,,,, yes if they had a majority of their aircraft being obscure, I could tend to understand the concern, but it seems that the folks at HM have done a pretty good job of balancing more standard type aircraft with the obscure ones.

[Hoverbug]

Perhaps the solution is to classify the 1/48 interwar series as a premium line - small run numbers, and a small number of releases with maybe a bit of a flourish on the details, but a higher price point. I am quite willing to pay double the current rate for an F3F, Fury, etc. with perhaps just a small amount of added detail.

[roowalker]

Provocative thread! Elmer mentioned his expected life span as a collector,something I can really relate to at my age AND with my weird health issues..Just what would I like? I am self-restricted to 1:48th,and due to space and finances I concentrate on fighters only,and in just a few groupings.....WW1 German and in WWII,early CBI,early Pacific,and late ETO German.I'm just very happy with what has come along in my 4years of collecting ! I just want to see the manufacturers continue to turn out good stuff. If it doesn't fit my niches,O.K.,SOMEBODY out there will be thrilled,I hope. Eventually,I believe,as our hobby grows,and I believe it will,the professionally revised P51s,Bf109s,etc. will appear.Some soon,some later. The poll idea is very good,wish all our players would try it. One of my thoughts is that folks like HM and C1 could perhaps alternate between the iconic and the more obscure in their new moulds?

[Elmer]

Originally Posted by Cruver Collecter

To be honest, what is all he guff over HM making some of the obscure aircraft. If you take a look at what they have produced so far, most of it is fairly main stream. In 1/72nd they have the Nakajima B5N2, Bf 110, F6F, Ju 87, P-39, Dauntless, Avenger and soon to come Helldiver & Beaufighter (Just sticking to WWII). 1/48th scale wise they have Brewster Buffalo, Grumman F3F and a SpitfireMk XIV. Have to say out of the lot I would only qualify the Buffalo and the Grumman F3Fs as being what would most likely be considered obscure. Comes out to two out of twelve (Types not total models) WWII birds not being more mainstream type aircraft (2 out of 13 if you consider the possibility of Val). I know some folks are aching to see some of the more iconic aircraft perfected, but I have yet to see a model come out that someone could not find fault with. So if HM does come out with something like the Fury, we will be looking at them having three aircraft out of their current lot that is not the more standard type fair. Close to 80 percent of what they have put out is pretty much non obscure type aircraft. So to say that Hobby Master is currently focusing all its attention towards obscure aircraft, just does not seem to be an accurate assessment

CC...

My original post makes no mention of 1:72 lines. I didn't account for 1:72 at all... nor did I want to. I wrote this to dialogue with collectors of 1:48 scale aircraft. Neither was my original post specific to Hobby Master. It accounts for all manufacturers of 1:48 scale aircraft. Also, my post is specific to props... not jets. But... if you account for what HM has done at 1:48, I would say the only iconic type done is the Spitfire. And the recent suggestions coming out of HM for the future have been an I-16 and Hawker Fury... two more obscure types. And beyond that, all indications/suggestions coming out of Hobby Master's camp have been that they will do types not previously done. The only model coming from C1 in almost two years is another obscure type. Is this not an accurate assessment of the current 1:48 market?

Now I think it pointless to get in an argument with you about worthy subects for models. You are clearly on record for wanting, what I would call "obscure" types. I have no argument with you. I want some to. My point is, I don't want a collection of mainly "obscure" types and few iconics, or a collection of fine, well-tooled "obscure" type models and poorly tooled iconic models. And I don't want to wait until I am in my grave for fine well tooled iconic models.

[Epapazian]

Originally Posted by Elmer

CC...

My original post makes no mention of 1:72 lines. I didn't account for 1:72 at all... nor did I want to. I wrote this to dialogue with collectors of 1:48 scale aircraft. Neither was my original post specific to Hobby Master. It accounts for all manufacturers of 1:48 scale aircraft. Also, my post is specific to props... not jets. But... if you account for what HM has done at 1:48, I would say the only iconic type done is the Spitfire. And the recent suggestions coming out of HM for the future have been an I-16 and Hawker Fury... two more obscure types. And beyond that, all indications/suggestions coming out of Hobby Master's camp have been that they will do types not previously done. The only model coming from C1 in almost two years is another obscure type. Is this not an accurate assessment of the current 1:48 market?

Now I think it pointless to get in an argument with you about worthy subects for models. You are clearly on record for wanting, what I would call "obscure" types. I have to argument with you. I want some to. My point is, I don't want a collection of mainly "obscure" types and few iconics, or a collection of fine, well-tooled "obscure" type models and poorly tooled iconic models. And I don't want to wait until I am in my grave for fine well tooled iconic models.

Frankly, I think that you are both right. While the definition of "obscure" is debatable----I don't think that the I-16 falls in that category, though the Fury probably does----it looks like HM is reconsidering its approach and may give us a series of "classics", along with the likes of the I-16, Fiat CR-32 , PZL-11, etc. So, the remaining issue is really about whether, HM----or somebody else---will start to revisit the "usual suspects" that Armour has done a poor job on---such as the BF-109, P-51, FW-190A, etc.---in 1:48th scale, or "dabble" ( my term ) in an even larger scale. So long as it doesn't preclude HM from doing a Val, Beaufighter, Tempest V, IL-2, Tony, LA5FN, F-105, Mig-23, etc. in 1:72nd, I'd like the see these "'Usual suspect' revisits in 1:48th, not 1:32nd.

[roowalker]

I wonder how many "new tool" 1:48 aircraft one could do for the investment required in a single 1:32 aircraft????

[rarmenda]

WWII planes in 1/48 scale do look better than in 1/72. Jets on the other hand are perfect in 1/72. Carousel 1 in my opinion has a good product and for a good price, for WWII 1/48 scale planes. They do not produce as many as FM, but they would be the perfect company to take the lead.

[Ara1]

Fantastic discussion Elmer. Hey we're the same age!

I fit your argument's demographic, I'm a 1/48 scale WWII collector who likes the iconic aircraft. I agree, I have 4 Buffalos and no Corsair, that is not right. I have a Barrelcat on preorder but no hopes for a Fw 190A. dissappointing! I had to make special arrangements just to get an accurate Zero (Marushin), and to boot, the largest 1/48 manufacturer, Franklin Mint, does not care about the consumer. I say this because I'm a consumer and I'm not feelin' the love. I've seen too many ill-advised paint schemes, poor details, wrong PBY turrets, too high Mossie/Zero/Stuka/262 canopies, a P-47 sliding canopy that nobody bothered to check the actual mechanical action of the real thing, and little efforts to improve. Even when FM gets it right, as with the He 111, many of us are 2 years waiting for THE iconic Battle of Britain scheme (sorry but the "three white bar" version is a very limited campaign field marking that is historically controversial to say the least--the colors of the bars, their placement on wings/tail, the bar's stenciled overspray, the fact that these markings were enacted for maybe 3-4 weeks very late in the Battle, etc.) The Polish campaign version with its oversized crosses is out and out clownish, again obscure and an impossible sell, w/ the swazi too far forward for the era and the wrong style fuselage cross...

How long have we C-47 lovers noted / reported / kindly reviewed the wrong prop angle on the FM offering? And they haven't changed it because.... (see "to boot" above).

YES to the iconics! Yes to fighters and single engined bombers that were produced in the 10's of thousands, Yes to those that started the war and ended the war and evolved in between, Yes to every plane that fought at Midway and the 'Canal and over Stalingrad and Kursk. Yes to North Africa, the Pearl defenders and attackers, Yes to the fighters over Leyte and Sicily, the Battle of France and the Invasion of the continent.

And, I add this: choose kicking schemes and feature optional ordinance. Do I want "Fearless Dick" painted on my plane, or do I want a checkered cowling/tail/ wingtip? Position your planes to sell! It's obvious but it's not being done.

[Elmer]

So happy you chimed in, Ara! I was eager to hear your comments; I knew you would add well-thought text to this debate, which, by the way, I agree with 100%.

I hope other 1:48 scale collectors will chime in: Pappy, Harry, Cardo, Bill, and others. Would love to know your thoughts.