[Gort]

Hey, I’ve got a question, but I ask it delicately ...

First, a disclaimer: I’m not suggesting diecast manufacturers actually foster, promote or practice the following scenario; point in fact, I believe otherwise. I simply propose this working hypothesis (pure conjecture) to probe your brains. So please, if any of you are directly or indirectly associated with diecast manufacturers, companies and/or business entities, don’t take offense. None is intended.

OK, the question ...

If you were told today that a particular diecast manufacturer (for the sake of argument, the company’s name is Marvelous Miniatures) employs slave labor, provides wretched working conditions and pays zilch to its workers—would you continue to purchase their product? Even if that product was mouth-wateringly fabulous?

Would this circumstance offend your sensibilities, make you angry, cause you to swear off Marvelous Miniatures? Or would you accept reality, hope said employees keep from starving, and enjoy the fruits of their labors?

A troubling question, no? Here’s my take ...

I suspect that if these woebegone employees were dropping like flies due to unhealthy, wretched working conditions, we might get a little squeamish—perhaps even nauseated if the circumstances were extreme. But something tells me most collectors would turn a blind eye, especially if Marvelous Minatures’ models were sensational. In fact, I’d suggest that the better the models, the less we’d care about the people who made them and their working conditions.

Is that too judgmental? Too harsh? Or am I dead right-on?

[Epapazian]

I think that most collectors, myself included, would not be that concerned about those poor, underpaid, third world workers who turn out diecast models, so long as the supply of product isn't affected. After all, the same kinds of people make many of the clothes we wear, almost all of our toys, many electronic products , etc. etc. It's not that we are unsympathetic to their plight, but rather, this is the way the world is going and cheap labor's lot is to be exploited. Interestingly, even in places like China, the serfs are able to protest---after a fashion---by not returning to work following the New Year celebrations. Many apparently sought out other jobs that paid slightly better or were nearer to their homes, causing the diecast factory managers to relocate deeper into the interior in search of more needy and desperate workers. I wonder how long that will last?

[Canuck]

Originally Posted by Gort

Hey, I’ve got a question, but I ask it delicately ...

First, a disclaimer: I’m not suggesting diecast manufacturers actually foster, promote or practice the following scenario; point in fact, I believe otherwise. I simply propose this working hypothesis (pure conjecture) to probe your brains. So please, if any of you are directly or indirectly associated with diecast manufacturers, companies and/or business entities, please don’t take offense. None is intended.

OK, the question ...

If you were told today that a particular diecast manufacturer (for the sake of argument, the company’s name is Marvelous Miniatures) employs slave labor, provides wretched working conditions and pays zilch to its workers—would you continue to purchase their product? Even if that product was mouth-wateringly fabulous?

Would this circumstance offend your sensibilities, make you angry, cause you to swear off Marvelous Miniatures? Or would you accept reality, hope said employees keep from starving, and enjoy the fruits of their labors?

A troubling question, no? Here’s my take ...

I suspect that if these woebegone employees were dropping like flies due to unhealthy, wretched working conditions, we might get a little squeamish—perhaps even nauseated if the circumstances were extreme. But something tells me most collectors would turn a blind eye, especially if Marvelous Minatures’ models were sensational. In fact, I’d suggest that the better the models, the less we’d care about the people who made them and their working conditions.

Is that too judgmental? Too harsh? Or am I dead right-on?

My opinion - terms like slave labour, wretched working conditions, and zero pay are ambiguous. I mean, if we are comparing the working conditions in North America or Europe to somewhere in the developing world, then yes, these descriptions might be appropriate. However, when compared to other manufacturing facilities in the same area, the conditions may actually be quite good.

At the end of the day, I don't think that it would make much difference to me personally. That being said, if Marvelous Miniatures stepped up to the plate and said that they could guarantee better working conditions & living standards for the workers in their factory for a price increase of say, 10%, to their product, then I wouldn't have any problem paying the difference - provided that the quality was still there.

My two cents...

[Folgore]

What Epapazian said.

Sad to say, Visitor from Another Planet, but your hypothesis is close to reality, and most people seem to accept it. If something particularly heinous about Marvelous Miniatures became public (endemic physical abuse of their employees? heart-wrenching photos of little kids on the assembly line?) I would swear them off, and I hope others would, as well. But substandard working conditions? Heck, that's just standard in today's glorious global economy.

I'll tell ya what, though: I would pay more for models from a manufacturer that pledged to treat its workers and the environment well. When the opportunity arises for me to purchase goods that are manufactured in the USA (or another nation with decent and enforced workplace and environmental regulations) or by a company that treats its employees and/or the environment well, I do so.

[trex0770]

It's all relative. The problem is that we look at these things from a Western view point. Conditions are bad in our eyes relative to our sense of entitlement but to the Chinese worker it might not be bad relative to what they are use to (i.e. no jobs, poverty in their villages). They might even be making more money in one year than they would've made in half a lifetime had these jobs not been available. These jobs are just that, they're jobs. People are not forced into indentured servitude, as a matter of fact alot do leave for other positions closer to home.

As an example, my in-laws have a business partner who owns a paper processing business in China. The business is actually a campus that employs hundreds of workers, feeds them, provides living quarters, shopping, etc while they work there. They aren't paid a "Western style" salary but, for the majority, it is much more than what they expected from their lives. Most of these workers came from rural areas where there isn't the basic things we in the West take for granted (running water, plumbing, electricity, etc.). They also have turnover as people have gone home after making enough money to sustain them until they feel the need to go find another factory job.

Anyway, personally, I don't have a problem with Marvelous Miniatures conducting business........they just need to watch the QC (just kidding).

[jim]

Gort,

$1.50 an hour is about the going rate for unskilled labour in China.

To the Chinese living in total poverty , for example mud houses, no roads , no electricity, no sewers etc, $1.50 is a fortune.
An average working week is around 60 hours and it is not unusual for whole families to cover the shifts for a full working week, 24 x7.

I am told that in just over 2 years the average wage for an unskilled person has increased by 50%.

Everything is relative and I suppose a $1.50 is better than the alternative of having nothing at all.

[Cardinal]

Originally Posted by Gort

Hey, I’ve got a question, but I ask it delicately ...

First, a disclaimer: I’m not suggesting diecast manufacturers actually foster, promote or practice the following scenario; point in fact, I believe otherwise. I simply propose this working hypothesis (pure conjecture) to probe your brains. So please, if any of you are directly or indirectly associated with diecast manufacturers, companies and/or business entities, don’t take offense. None is intended.

OK, the question ...

If you were told today that a particular diecast manufacturer (for the sake of argument, the company’s name is Marvelous Miniatures) employs slave labor, provides wretched working conditions and pays zilch to its workers—would you continue to purchase their product? Even if that product was mouth-wateringly fabulous?

Would this circumstance offend your sensibilities, make you angry, cause you to swear off Marvelous Miniatures? Or would you accept reality, hope said employees keep from starving, and enjoy the fruits of their labors?

A troubling question, no? Here’s my take ...

I suspect that if these woebegone employees were dropping like flies due to unhealthy, wretched working conditions, we might get a little squeamish—perhaps even nauseated if the circumstances were extreme. But something tells me most collectors would turn a blind eye, especially if Marvelous Minatures’ models were sensational. In fact, I’d suggest that the better the models, the less we’d care about the people who made them and their working conditions.

Is that too judgmental? Too harsh? Or am I dead right-on?

Given the scenario you've sketched Gort, no amount of rationalisation or justification can explain away the fact that purchasing items produced under such conditions is both unethical and immoral and demeans us all as human beings ...

(Climbing off my 'high horse' now ...)

[Gort]

Boy, you know what? I’m more conflicted than ever. On the one hand I agree with Cardo that it’s morally reprehensible to purchase items produced under deplorable conditions. I mean, who'd want their mother to work for peanuts while shivering to death? On the other, Jim and trex are right that in Asia, China specifically, $1.50 an hour is a king’s ransom—and the prospect for even better wages is on the horizon (Jim didn’t say that last blurb; I just threw it in to sound knowledgeable ).

Question: By purchasing diecast models, do we compound third-world peasant misery—or subtract from it?

Frankly, I’m guilty of turning a blind eye. I purchase loads of merchandise from WalMart, knowing full well that a huge dollop of that stuff flies off assembly lines maned by ill-fated, poorly paid workers. Poorly paid by my standards—not theirs.

In fact, until I dreamt up this thread, I hadn’t given it one thought. Probably didn’t want to think about it. Now I’m wondering if I’m contributing to human misery, if I’m a vulgar capitalist hypocrite so consumed with materialism I couldn’t care less about proletariat privation (cue the crocodile tears).

Whatever, as crass as this sounds, I’m not ditching diecast collecting. Every time I plunk down coin for a brand-spanking-new diecast model, I’ll exult that I’m paying for somebody’s rice bowl, and at the same time wince that I’m not providing more.

[parsig9]

Originally Posted by jim

Everything is relative and I suppose a $1.50 is better than the alternative of having nothing at all.

The first thing I thought ws just about like that. Would they be better off unemployed? That would be the effect of our boycott!
Our noble intentions may cost people their jobs, homes, or lives. Let the market work. These nations won't be "developing" forever.

There are plenty of people in landlocked central Africa who are dying for jobs like the ones some Westerners consider sub-standard.

Our decisions to purchase these products create jobs and opportunity for sure. Remember back in the early 19th C. when we were the developing nation and "workshop" of the world. If it wasn't for federal regulators and minimum wage, we might still be that. Don't feel guilty for a second about buying models from developing nations.

[mkvb]

It maybe an over simplified way of looking at it but if you want to earn more than a 1.50 an hour then you have to bloody well fight for it.Nothing in life comes easy.Guess the answer to your question Gort is no I don't care.Welcome back by the way.