[TopHat]

Originally Posted by Shawn 507

I disagree. Most deserters of the current conflict aren't nutters. And most of the agents ( US traitors ) for the former Soviet Union weren't either. They do it because in the end the worse they will get is life or a real long sentence. What is to fear??
I don't think this discussion applies to the OKC bomber types. They are terrorists, not serving members of the armed forces or some intelligence agency. Or some civilian giving aid and comfort to the enemy like Hanoi Jane who dimed out POW Nick Rowe during Nam. We're crossing the intent that I believe Top Hat ( former Navy ) was raising here.
But yes, the true believer, radical nut job wont be swayed much. But I'll wager most of these cats who get caught before they blow themselves up, are scared of what will happen to them. Its one thing to go down in the name of "X". Its another to be taken out by those you aim to hurt.
Bottom line, I dont want them locked up so it eats taxpayer money. I don't want to hear about over crowding in the stockade, federal prison, etc... I don't want to hear about prisoners not getting cable TV.
Perhaps the endorsing of "relationships" that prison life brings on would be better. At least someone would love them.

Hear Hear!!

They don't deserve 3 hots and a cot on the taxpayers' dime. I think the cost of a few grains of powder, some lead and brass is about all we should spend.

[Shawn 507]

One other thought. What if we could show the long list of those effected by the desertion or the selling out of your nation. The families who lost thier son/daughter because someone elses couldn't live up to their commitment. Or the families of friendlies killed by the act? That POS gets to sit out life in prison, laughing, feeling all proud of his/herself because of their decision? No that dog don't hunt.

[TopHat]

Originally Posted by Shawn 507

One other thought. What if we could show the long list of those effected by the desertion or the selling out of your nation. The families who lost thier son/daughter because someone elses couldn't live up to their commitment. Or the families of friendlies killed by the act? That POS gets to sit out life in prison, laughing, feeling all proud of his/herself because of their decision? No that dog don't hunt.

Shawn, you have hit the nail on the head. That's the real cost of the betrayal. That's the part that makes me burn inside....

[Rush104]

I have a question...
We know what desertion means. We know what treason means. Now, if a person stays in place, but commits an act that he knows is illegal (and therefore disqualifies him from further military service), would that be considered desertion and/or treason? Malingering, for example?

[Shawn 507]

Like drug use? I'm all for sending him/her to Kansas for a few years too. Reduced in rank, loss of pay and privis, bad conduct discharge etc...

[Rush104]

I agree with that. The term of punishment should be for the remaining term of the enlistment, at an absolute minimum.

[Old Crow]

Another interesting (and partly surreal) discussion. Especially some of the visual images.

Here is a link to a website with collected information on the deterrence effect, or lack thereof, of the death penalty: Facts about Deterrence and the Death Penalty
I think this site tends to be biased aginst the death penalty but you can read and decide for yourself.

Personally, deterrence is not the only reason I favor death as a penalty in some cases. I think society has a legitimate interest in and right to justice, even if there is no deterrent effect. I also think the Biblical concept of an eye for an eye is one legitimate way to define the concept of justice. So, in the final analysis, I don't care if the traitor is motivated by greed or creed.

[Jack Raiden]

The death penalty is often supported by many who believe it acts as a deterrence, is more economically sound and is true justice. As someone who disagrees with capital punishment but is a firm believer in law and order I would prefer to see a sentence of life in prison without a chance of parole without any perks (ie TV, conjugal visits etc) in solitary confinement. The death penalty has been proven to not have a deterrent effect with the crime rate. It is actually more expensive for the state to execute a prisoner.There have also been some people who have been wrongfully convicted. I'm sure many of you recently saw the news article of the prisoner released after 26 years after having been wrongfully convicted.This is becoming more common. DNA and other forensic sciences continue to improve. As regards to justice I understand and respect the argument but disagree. The eye for an eye reference is an Old Testament style of justice. This changed in the New Testament. I've enjoyed and respect all of the opinions of the forum members. In conclusion I would like to add that I have been employed as a police officer the last 23 years.

[Shawn 507]

Originally Posted by Jack Raiden

The death penalty is often supported by many who believe it acts as a deterrence, is more economically sound and is true justice. As someone who disagrees with capital punishment but is a firm believer in law and order I would prefer to see a sentence of life in prison without a chance of parole without any perks (ie TV, conjugal visits etc) in solitary confinement. The death penalty has been proven to not have a deterrent effect with the crime rate. It is actually more expensive for the state to execute a prisoner.There have also been some people who have been wrongfully convicted. I'm sure many of you recently saw the news article of the prisoner released after 26 years after having been wrongfully convicted.This is becoming more common. DNA and other forensic sciences continue to improve. As regards to justice I understand and respect the argument but disagree. The eye for an eye reference is an Old Testament style of justice. This changed in the New Testament. I've enjoyed and respect all of the opinions of the forum members. In conclusion I would like to add that I have been employed as a police officer the last 23 years.

Lets not confuse stealing purses with selling out your country, or deserting your friends in combat. I'm not getting into the whole cost vs effect of capitol punishment. Criminals know that we the people don't have the sack to do it, therefore they are not worried about capitol punishment. And a bullet doesn't cost that much. Again, we're drifting off course with your post, but thanks for playing.

[TopHat]

Originally Posted by Jack Raiden

The death penalty is often supported by many who believe it acts as a deterrence, is more economically sound and is true justice. As someone who disagrees with capital punishment but is a firm believer in law and order I would prefer to see a sentence of life in prison without a chance of parole without any perks (ie TV, conjugal visits etc) in solitary confinement. The death penalty has been proven to not have a deterrent effect with the crime rate. It is actually more expensive for the state to execute a prisoner.There have also been some people who have been wrongfully convicted. I'm sure many of you recently saw the news article of the prisoner released after 26 years after having been wrongfully convicted.This is becoming more common. DNA and other forensic sciences continue to improve. As regards to justice I understand and respect the argument but disagree. The eye for an eye reference is an Old Testament style of justice. This changed in the New Testament. I've enjoyed and respect all of the opinions of the forum members. In conclusion I would like to add that I have been employed as a police officer the last 23 years.

Just a reminder that we are not talking about rape or murder, but desertion and treason. I don't see how DNA would impact this at all.


Capital punishment is an excellent deterent on an individual basis. If the convict has gone to his or her just reward in the hereafter, then we as a society don't have to worry about that person coming back to re-offend. Maybe I am being a bonehead about this, but that's how I feel. With recidivism rates the way they are, I'm not so sure that prison in general is a deterent either. So should we just turn 'em all loose?

The United States Department of Justice tracked the rearrest, re-conviction, and re-incarceration of former inmates for 3 years after their release from prisons in 15 States in 1994. Key findings include:

• Released prisoners with the highest rearrest rates were robbers (70.2%), burglars (74.0%), larcenists (74.6%), motor vehicle thieves (78.8%), those in prison for possessing or selling stolen property (77.4%), and those in prison for possessing, using, or selling illegal weapons (70.2%).
  
• Within 3 years, 2.5% of released rapists were arrested for another rape, and 1.2% of those who had served time for homicide were arrested for homicide.
  
• The 272,111 offenders discharged in 1994 had accumulated 4.1 million arrest charges before their most recent imprisonment and another 744,000 charges within 3 years of release.
  

As far as cost effectiveness, who knows. I can't imagine that a jolt of electricity is as expensive as a lifetime behind bars, but maybe it is. You don't have to be sentenced to death in order to appeal a conviction, so the cost of the appeal process applies to both death sentences and life sentences.