[SkyBuffalo]

Awhile back, I got Dragon's James Flatley F6 Hellcat from May of 1943 (that would be the left-hand photo). I got it because it had the light blue paint scheme, which was different than most of the Hellcat models you see with the three-tone or all dark-blue paint schemes. It was only after buying the model that I did some research and found that the USS Yorktown was in VIRGINIA in May of 43, not in the Pacific. So I was all hacked off that I had a model that didn't see any action, since the other Flatley Hellcat from Dragon had the dark blue paint scheme that was put on after it got to the Pacific (that would be the right-hand photo).

Then, a few days ago, I was watching my History Channel's "Dogfight", Season 1, Episode about the Hellcat's introduction to combat in the fall of 1943. And their rendition was showing a whole bunch of Hellcats in combat in October of 1943 with the LIGHT BLUE paint scheme! I guess I want to know if this is accurate.


So the question to the historical authorities out there is : Did any F6F Hellcats see action in the Pacific in the latter half of 1943 flying with the all light-blue paint scheme ? Or were all Hellcats oversprayed with the dark-blue paint on the top of the wings and fuselage?

It would make me feel better to know I had a plane that was at least representative of those in combat and not just for training. Thanks for any help from yous guys and have a great weekend!

[STARMAN 352ND]

Grumman F6F-3 "Hellcat" in early 1943 non-specular blue-grey over light-grey scheme.


Early 1943

[STARMAN 352ND]

Aug 1943

Lt. Commander Flatley as Commander Air Group 5 (CAG-5) in his F6F-3 Hellcat on the flight deck off USS Yorktown before takeoff during the Marcus Island raid on 31 August 1943

[skydriver]

Starman, looks like we both have Carrier Air War by Tilllman and Lawson in our library. This book is also titled World War II U.S. Navy Air Combat and U.S. Navy Air Combat 1939 - 1946.

( On a side note, see my thread about these books in this section ).

[STARMAN 352ND]

I don't have the books...But my father has the Tillman book
JP

[STARMAN 352ND]

Oh and i agree my father just told me he thought the two books were the same all most.
But different authors.
JP

[skysurfer808]

To answer your question Skybuffalo, since the Hellcat didn't see action until the fall of 1943, it was probable that the Flatley scheme on the right, with the dark blue overspray was the scheme that it was introduced to combat with. VF-6 was one of the first Hellcat units to see action, and as they were aboard ship rather than ashore, they likley had better access to the spray can than a shore based unit. The pics posted above showing Hellcats are the most likely evidence, especially the one showing Flatley's machine spotted in front of the Yorktown's island. Also, note that the formerly red bordered national insignia has been oversprayed in blue. This is strong evidence that for the Yorktown Group at least the overall paint job was applied in a timely manner, as is the contours of the dark blue top, which are not as regular as in later production hellcats, whose tri-color scheme was applied in more uniform manner. Now USMC F4U-1 Corsairs did enter combat in the 1942 early 43 light blue-gray scheme, but they were shore based in the Solomans, and entered combat much earlier in the year. These Corsairs remained in this scheme for many months, indeed pics of Boyington's Blacksheep show few changes, aside from a simple white bar added to the circular insignia, without any red surround. Of course considering the demands of island hopping and the logistical nightmare of the Solomans campaign, is it any wonder that Marine and Navy ground crews had better things to work on than complying with Technical Orders issued thousands of miles away.

When it comes to National Insignia, the many changes between 1941 and 1947 make it possible to date most US aircraft pics simply by their national insignia. This is a good thing for historical researchers and anyone who is looking to pinpoint an airplane to a particular piece of time.

1941 to May 15 1942. The Red Dotted Star Insigia. The famous prewar Star with the Red Dot. Supplemented in late 1941 by Candy Striped Rudder Markings. In the jittery days right after Pearl Harbor, the importance of National Insignia was realized, and in late 41 the candy striped rudder was added, and the Star was often increased in size, especially in Navy Aircraft. However, the color Red in the center dot often was mistaken for the Japanese rising sun, and in early May 1942, the order came from on high to paint out the Red Dot. In an ealier post, I posted pics of Midway era Navy and Marine aircraft which clearly showed this order was complied with, though often hastily, as ground crews had many other priorities to contend with.

May 15 1942 to June 28th 1943. The White Star. The Prewar Marking minus the Red Dot, so a simple White Star in an Insignia Blue field. This marking was carried by US Aircraft through the toughest months of Air Combat of the War, predominantly in the Pacific, as the European Theatre adopted its own version of this marking due to Friendly Fire concerns of its own. See Below. Ironically, this marking later became the National Insignia of the Air Force of Somaila, albiet with a lighter shade of blue, something I first noticed as a child when looking at a book of Soviet Aircraft and seeing a Soviet Antanov Transport in Somali markings.

November 1942 to Mid 1943. The White Star with a Yellow Surround. This was an European Theatre Marking, adopted in part because the simple White Star could in some cases be mistaken for the German Cross (ie low light, overcast skies.) The British Bullseye Roundel National Insignia was surrounded by a Yellow Surround, and adding this to the US Marking was a way of adding uniformity, as well as helping highlight the American Insignia, especially when painted on camoflaged airplanes. The Yellow Surrounded White Star was also adopted by British Royal Navy Aircraft during Operation Torch, as the British Roundel could have easily been confused for the French Roundel, and the French were expected to be a little more reluctant to engage American airplanes, rather than British ones, especially after Dakar and Mers El Kebir. However, the French still managed to shoot down several American aircraft, while a British Hudson from the RAF was also shot down. Land based operations being what they were, these markings lingered for months after, and remained on US Aircraft stationed in the UK till replaced by the next series of Insignia.

June 28th 1943 to September 4th 1943. The shortest lived US National Insignia, the Red Surround Star and Bars. Perhaps in an attempt to make an insignia with Red White and Blue, in a burst of patriotic frenzy, a red surround was added to the Star, and Bars made their first appearance, though one wonders at the probabilty of the bars being mistanken for the Luftwaffe Cross in the ETO, perhaps the reason the red was added. However, in the Pacific the Red was instantly unpopular, due to the aforementioned tendency of gunners to shoot at anything red. In Europe the Red Lasted longer, and was the insignia on the majority of 8th Air Force Bombers during its grim Autumn missions against Nazi Germany.

September 4th 1943 to January 14th 1947. The Blue Bordered Star and Bars. This was the Marking that US military airpower won the war with. Simple, effective, though still sometimes possibly mistaken for a German Cross (a la George Preddy Christmas Day 1944), the Blue Bordered Star and Bars were carried by more airplanes before or since. It had one unique variation in USN-USMC service after the Sea Services adopted the Midnight Blue Livery, the Star and Bars were many times merely painted on the aircraft in white, after all, why bother painting a dark blue disk onto a dark blue airplane.

January 14th 1947 to the Present. The Red Striped Star and Bars. The Blue Bordered Star and Bars with a Red Stripe in the middle of the Bars. Added to put Red back onto the National Insignia, so we could have airplanes with Red White and Blue once again, the Red Striped Star and Bars remain the current National Insignia, though in military airplanes, low vis gray has often resulted in the National Insignia being a mere stencil in gray....but that is another story.

Hope this helps,

Sorry I've been away so long, been flying a lot, but this post set some creative juices flowing.

More to come when possible.

Aloha,
Skysurfer808

[Art LeBrun]

The next challenge would to be aware of the changing vertical stabilizer codes from 1943-1944 to 1945 and why some used letters and others used the
geometric shapes and stripes/diagonals. Bet that would take a lot of pages to document. It amazes me how the military could not always be consistent
in unit markings and aircraft markings in USN and USAAF.

[skysurfer808]

Originally Posted by Art LeBrun

The next challenge would to be aware of the changing vertical stabilizer codes from 1943-1944 to 1945 and why some used letters and others used the
geometric shapes and stripes/diagonals. Bet that would take a lot of pages to document. It amazes me how the military could not always be consistent
in unit markings and aircraft markings in USN and USAAF.

What you mention is the Air Group marking system adopted to help Naval Aircraft formations in the later part of the war. By 1944-45, the Navy had a large number of carriers operating together in the Pacific in Task Force 38/58 (named that way depending if Halsey/Spruance or McCain/Mitscher were commanding those respective Fleets/Task Forces). There were so many flattops that there was a tale of one Captain arriving at Ulithi Atoll unable to find his new command in the midst of all the carriers anchored there. Now if a Captain had trouble finding his own ship amongst the fleet, imagine the difficulty inherent in sorting out your own air group when each flattop held between 45 to 100 airplanes (45 for the Independence class, 90-100 for the Essex). Since Navy aircraft were all camoflagued virtually identically, and indivdual unit markngs and nose art were officially frowned upon, how do you know which group of planes is from your own ship, especially in conditions of radio silence. The Geometric patterns were an aid to formations, at least that way you could sort out different ship's air groups according to the markings on their tails, and join up with your air group over the target and on the way home. The Japanese pioneered this technique, during the Pearl Harbor attack, each carrier had its own set of color bands, with the Akagi having a red band on its rear fuselage, the Kaga with 2, and so on.

The Letter system came about in the final month of the War, after it was realized that the Geometric Pattern actually hampered fighter control operations in anti-Kamikaze patrols. After all, when you are vectoring formations of fighters, it is easier to say a series of phonetic alphabet letters then to say a geometric pattern. Which is easier to say over the air, Jig Jig One, or Rear Diagonal White Tail one? This system fell into a bit of disuse when the USN was cut to the bone during peacetime, but came back over Korea, when if you look at photos of Korean War era aircraft, you will notice that Carrier based Aircraft sport large Letters on their tail, ie S for Sail for the USS Valley Forge's Air Group 5. In fact, the letter system is still used today, with Alpha standing for Atlantic Fleet Air Wings (followed by another letter of course) and November standing for Pacific Fleet Air Wings...a way to instantly tell which Fleet a particular airplane belongs to.

Often times what seems strange and contradictory to civilians is a common sense military response to the challenges of the operating environment, like the reason why each military service operates its own aircraft...try calling in air support up the USAF's chain of command when the bad guys are coming, a big reason why the USMC's organic air power is so popular with the folks on the ground, even though the USAF does operate the best Close Air Support airpane ever, the A-10.

Skysurfer808

[SkyBuffalo]

Very cool info., SkySurfer, especially about the insignias!

Unfortunately, I don't think anyone has yet answered my original question : Did any F6F Hellcats fly in combat in just the light blue-grey paint scheme (without the dark blue overspray) in late 1943?

I had Flatley's plane as an example, and I know it got oversprayed when it went into battle in August '43. But did other Hellcats from other groups/ships fly in combat before they got the dark blue overspray? Or was the "Dogfights" episode wrong?