[Shawn 507]

Not to step on you Sky Surfer, but it can't be that hard. I've know some of the people who drop a Warrant packet and then go on to fly helos for the Army. And if ever I saw them in the cockpit, I'd rather walk. I'm sure its rough, but I've seen some mental midgets make it.

[Louie]

All of this information is super important to me. Cessna 172's cost about $75 an hour to fly compared to over $200 for helo's. I wanted to get info from actual pilots not flight school recruiters. My friend is 3 or 4 hours away from his private helo license and is going all the way. It seems like such a long, hard, and not very rewarding(except for the joy of flight) road. I took a discovery flight and got hooked. I flew the old Hughes 300 which is now called the Schweiser. I hovered really well and actually flew it around an open area for a while. I have 00's of hours on Microsofts Combat Flight Simulator and it actually helped me learn to finesse flight controls. My friend has his PPL in fixed wings. He did not do the add on I don't think. Air Orlando has a school and says it will cost me 40-60K. At 40 years old, I really want to get a rewarding career. I have been in sales for years and sales are slow and tough. I do not want to go to trade school to be a plumber or electrician or college. This seemed like the ticket. You are right though about the military. Soon they will be coughing out hundreds of helo pilots looking to continue flying. I hear they take civilian instructors with 500 or more hours at the Army bases, but how long is that waiting list I wonder..... Helo pilots sem to have such a long hard road with low pay so it seems. I wonder if my family would really be supportive after several years of flying to get where i have been now pay wise. I just wanted to hear the good and bad from guys who have been there and done that. I am naturally optimistic but I want to be sure the truth is not being swept under the mat only to be discovered long after I have become committed. I understand the danger,driving to work on I-4 is probably less safe though. Any and all comments are helpful and if you get tired of typing call me I'll call you back on my dime 407 257-4457 and of course my real name is really Louie. Thanks again guys,
Louie

[Hoverbug]

I actually did all but one of my hours in the Schweizer at Air Orlando and had a pretty positive experience there. I'd definitely go as far as encouraging you to do your private there. Start with the fixed wing private and instrument, then do the helo add-on. That way you can get your feet wet, find out if you love it (not merely like) and whether you are ready to drop a life-changing amount of money on it. You can also keep your day job for a while. Once you get closer to the commercial, I would however recommend going with someplace that caters to prospective professional pilots (e.g. Helicopter Adventuresin Titusville, which to my great surprise is now "Bristow Academy") for the reason that you'll get more standardized training and have a much better chance at getting into the queue to be an instructor, which is how you'll get your hours.

I wouldn't sweat the military issue at all. The simple fact is that unlike Vietnam, we are not "surging" our helicopter assets, either by building new aircraft, or training significant numbers of new pilots. The number of rotary wing aircraft now in service is in all probability somewhat less than in 2003. There are a lot of airframes being retired and very few new ones coming in. It's taken three years just to replace the Chinooks we lost in Afghanistan. Even if the war(s) ended tomorrow, there is still a general shortage of rotary wing aircraft and personnel, particularly in the Army. Also, we are on the verge of a huge petroleum exploitation surge. We nearly doubled the number of civil helicopters in this country as a result of the OPEC crisis in the seventies. At that time, there was the huge surplus of ex-military pilots to fill the gap. This time, that is not likely to be the case, so if you were going to be a professional helicopter pilot, my take is that this is just about the best time in the past twenty years to do so.

Originally Posted by Louie

All of this information is super important to me. Cessna 172's cost about $75 an hour to fly compared to over $200 for helo's. I wanted to get info from actual pilots not flight school recruiters. My friend is 3 or 4 hours away from his private helo license and is going all the way. It seems like such a long, hard, and not very rewarding(except for the joy of flight) road. I took a discovery flight and got hooked. I flew the old Hughes 300 which is now called the Schweiser. I hovered really well and actually flew it around an open area for a while. I have 00's of hours on Microsofts Combat Flight Simulator and it actually helped me learn to finesse flight controls. My friend has his PPL in fixed wings. He did not do the add on I don't think. Air Orlando has a school and says it will cost me 40-60K. At 40 I want to get a rewarding career. I have been in sales for years and sales are slow and tough. I do not want to go to trade school to be a plumber or electrician or college. This seemed like the ticket. You are right though about the military. Soon they will be coughing out hundreds of helo pilots looking to continue flying. I hear they take civilian instructors with 500 or more hours at the Army bases, but how long is that waiting list I wonder..... Helo pilots sem to have such a long hard road with low pay so it seems. I wonder if my family would really be supportive after several years of flying to get where i have been now pay wise. I just wanted to hear the good and bad from guys who have been there and done that. I am naturally optimistic but I want to be sure the truth is not being swept under the mat only to be discovered long after I have become committed. I understand the danger,driving to work on I-4 is probably less safe though. Any and all comments are helpful and if you get tired of typing call me I'll call you back on my dime 407 257-4457 and of course my real name is really Louie. Thanks again guys,
Louie

[Hoverbug]

A couple of comments;

Even though a helicopter can "land vertically", to do it safely requires an approach in the same manner as an airplane. One thing that concerns helicopter pilots greatly is the "height-velocity" diagram (aka "dead-man's curve), which essentially means that to make a safe autorotative landing you need a certain combination of airspeed and altitude to pull it off. Above 4-500' ft, you can probably make it from a hover, but as you go below that, you'll need to start carrying some additional speed to insure the rotor system will have sufficient energy to flare at the bottom of the autorotation and not plow into the ground. Put a student pilot into a helicopter with a low-inertia rotor system, like the R22, and you will want to increase those margins by a fair measure as standard operating procedure. The end result is that for student pilots in particular, conventional pattern work is every bit as important as it is for fixed wing pilots. That said, it shouldn't be that difficult to integrate fixed wing and rotary wing training in the same environment. In an uncontrolled environment, I've seen helos fly opposite side patterns at several hundred feet less to areas off the runway with no issues at all, even in dense conditions. In a tower environment, we used to shoot approaches to the taxiway, while the fixed wings landed on the adjacent runway, but flew the same pattern (though tighter) otherwise. That also worked pretty well. But regardless, the traffic pattern is going to be fairly similar to the fixed wing. Autorotations are about the most hazardous training activity that I have come across in 4,000 hours of practice, and believe me, you want nice standardized patterns to set up for them to eliminate as many things that can go wrong as possible, at least in the early stages of training. Post-solo, there is no reason why more of the training can't take place off-airport in more "real-world" circumstances, but who knows, maybe some insurance requirement eliminates that option for this particular school.

Originally Posted by skysurfer808

Hello All,

Its been a long time, but I've been pretty busy as of late, and have logged 200 plus hours since being here. When I saw the comment about that certain school in Vegas, I have to say something. They have a detachment here, and have caused more problems for our airport than just about anybody else...though our rival flight school across the field has also done their fair share of stupid things. The Vegas school offers a program where they say they'll loan you the funds if you get your instructor license in a year. Thing is nobody gets that far in a year, in fact the folks training here have only just begun to solo and get their private helo licenses. There was quite a bit of rivalry between us at first, but after a bit of beefing one of the instructors is now a friend. We all do our best to maintain professionalism, but the trouble is it is difficult to sequence an 70 knot helo into a traffic pattern where Cessnas fly at 85 knots, and Exec Jets come in at 100 plus. This leads to part 2 of my rant...traffic patterns. For whatever reason this helo school seems to find it necessary to fly airplane style traffic patterns....in a helo. They use a 6000 foot runway for their approach in a flying machine capable of vertical landings, which is a total mystery to me. The instructors also dress up in military style khaki nomex flight suits with military style insignia, which gets under my craw, but as my instructor friend told me...it is company policy.

I second hoverbugs assertion that one is much better off getting started in airplanes, than transitioning to helos. One of the best helo instructors on our field (from a competing outfit) is licensed in both and has 4500 hours in each. He also allowed me to get some loggable stick time in a Robinson R-44, my first time ever riding in a helo. Having this experience I can honestly say flying helos is a blast, but my airplane background definately came in handy. The one difficulty I really had lay in figuring out the yaw string, a little piece of yarn stuck to the front bubble that you have to follow in order to maintain coordinated flight. In an airplane you step on the ball of the turn coordinator, in a helo you step on the pedal opposite the yaw string. The controls are much more sensitive, and hovering is a whole other deal, but if you can already fly an airplane you are much better off than learning helos from the beginning. I have a student from that school who I am doing sporadic lessons with, and he is doing fine in the airplane, but when you consider the amount of money spent to get to where he got, the Helo Add on option makes sense.

I myself will eventually get the Commercial Ad on for helos, but it will likely cost somewhere in the neighborhood of 25-30K to do so. Going all the way to Helo CFI would cost the better part of 100k starting from scratch, whereas it is an add on for if you already have a Commercial and CFI rating. Still, one thing to keep in mind is this...the Army won't be in the sandbox forever. At some point in the not too distant future, there will be a large number of former Army Warrant Officer pilots looking for Helo Jobs. These folks, with 000's of hours of Turbine Helo and Combat time, will be first in line for the best helo jobs. Meanwhile, in the Fixed Wing world, regional airlines are hiring folks with a couple hundred hours and some are giving them their Commercial Multi Engine Checkrides in the sim during training. For long term job prospects, the Fixed Wing world looks much better, more seats open and a higher end salary....topping out at 120-150 rather than 100 for helo guys. On the other hand, you get to actually fly your machine, rather than be an autopilot manager....which does have some appeal. Of course in either airplanes or helos, the road up is a long one, with low pay and high training costs the rule for most of your first few years.

The funniest helo incident that happened to me occurred shortly after coming here. I was in the traffic pattern and a helo was creeping up on me and tower told its pilot to slow down. The Helo driver, who was most likely a student, actually said "I Can't," which really got my gander up...as he's flying a HELO. Tower came back on and told him "Do what you gotta do, but SLOW DOWN."

I hope you have all had a Happy Thanksgiving.

Aloha,
Skysurfer808

[sniperUK]

I do a bit of photography work for my local heli school {it's about 500 yds from my home) and all I can say is DON'T COME OVER HERE.It costs 225 GBP per hour for an R22 that $450 as usual for the UK total rip-off so for a PPLs minimum of 43 hrs thats over $19,000