[TopHat]

Most overrated? Let's see...the F-22?


Oops! My bad...not WWII...

[jim]

Originally Posted by FormerViperDriver

Yeah, Sergey, my advice is to you is to stop digging yourself in a deeper hole with that line of reasoning. There is NO argument possible about any P-51 Mustang (Merlin powered) being the most overrated plane of WW II. If you want to argue it (the D model) was somewhat overrated, OK, make the argument (I'm still skeptical, but I'll listen), but MOST OVERRATED? You got to be kidding.

But maybe you just say things like that to stir up controversy, who knows...

FVD

Relating to the points I made in my last post its possible Sergeys reasoning is that the Mustang has been the center of so much praise since the war that it is almost impossible to live up to the reputation heaped upon it.
As time passes these planes drift into a sort of mythical realm of fantasy were the reality has been glossed over.
The Mustang was is a great plane rightfully revered but sometimes the claims made for it go a little too far and give a false perspective.

Even the Spitfire cannot live up to its reputation , sometimes with the passing of time to use a phrase, the Lilly gets guilded a little too much.

Just my thoughts on this topic but in no way do I seek to play down just how important the Mustang B17 or the Spit where.

Well to put it in a nutshell ,without them I may well be speaking and writing in German.

[jim]

Originally Posted by TopHat

Most overrated? Let's see...the F-22?


Oops! My bad...not WWII...

Too early to say, a case of wait and see I reckon.

[TopHat]

jim, jim...the even keel of the Forum!

[FormerViperDriver]

Originally Posted by jim

Relating to the points I made in my last post its possible Sergeys reasoning is that the Mustang has been the center of so much praise since the war that it is almost impossible to live up to the reputation heaped upon it.
As time passes these planes drift into a sort of mythical realm of fantasy were the reality has been glossed over.
The Mustang was is a great plane rightfully revered but sometimes the claims made for it go a little too far and give a false perspective.

Even the Spitfire cannot live up to its reputation , sometimes with the passing of time to use a phrase, the Lilly gets guilded a little too much.

Just my thoughts on this topic but in no way do I seek to play down just how important the Mustang B17 or the Spit where.

Well to put it in a nutshell ,without them I may well be speaking and writing in German.

Yes, Jim, I get that. But my point was, we are not talking about any overrated aircraft, but THE MOST overrated. On that ground, I don't care how much the Mustang is hyped, it DID perform superbly. The Zero, on the other hand, was at least as "mythical" as the P-51 (more IMHO), but did not perform that well, in fact it got its a__ kicked consistently by Corsairs and Hellcats. So I can name at least one plane, the Zero, which is more overrated than the Mustang was/is, by any measure, I don't care how you slice it.

That doesn't settle whether the Zero is the final answer to the question, but it does settle the fact that the P-51 cannot be the most overrated. Now, would you agree with my line of reasoning?

FVD

[TopHat]

Originally Posted by FormerViperDriver

That doesn't settle whether the Zero is the final answer to the question, but it does settle the fact that the P-51 cannot be the most overrated. Now, would you agree with my line of reasoning?

FVD

I agree with your assessment of the Zeke.

[flyXwire]

Highly overrated or not, I'll fly the wild pony anytime up against any of the other overrated bandits!

[jim]

Originally Posted by FormerViperDriver

Yes, Jim, I get that. But my point was, we are not talking about any overrated aircraft, but THE MOST overrated. On that ground, I don't care how much the Mustang is hyped, it DID perform superbly. The Zero, on the other hand, was at least as "mythical" as the P-51 (more IMHO), but did not perform that well, in fact it got its a__ kicked consistently by Corsairs and Hellcats. So I can name at least one plane, the Zero, which is more overrated than the Mustang was/is, by any measure, I don't care how you slice it.

That doesn't settle whether the Zero is the final answer to the question, but it does settle the fact that the P-51 cannot be the most overrated. Now, would you agree with my line of reasoning?

FVD

I take your point , the MOST underated plane, yes I think the posts I made did drift a little away from the main point of the thread.

Very difficult, The Zero was a superb aeroplane but then it came up against real opposition it was found to be seriously wanting.
We cannot judge the Zero against such opposition as the Wildcat or Buffalo as they were a generation previous so to speak.Had the Zero come up against the Spitfire or Bf109 then I think it would have struggled.
Even the supposedly inferior P40 ( and I strongly refute that belief) in the right hands gave it a hard time.

It also lacked a precondition for the label of great, it just couldnt be developed to keep pace with the opposition.

So what to make of all this?

Well FVD your choice of the Zero may be the right one. Let us see if any other names are thrown into the ring.

Up to now the Zero has the front position.

[MoMo]

A 'must read' book on this topic is 'Bomber Boys' by Patrick Bishop who also wrote the fantastic 'Fighter Boys'. ( Shamrock )

If you ever read anything this summer, make sure that you read " Fighter Boys " by Patrick Bishop....you'll love it!

This is one of the best of the histories of the guys who fought in the BOB. It takes you from the thinking behind Trenchard's plans for the RAF between the wars. The forward thinking in Trenchard's design of the training program for pilots, additional crew and erks is examined too.

What makes this book a must is the research that Bishop has undertaken to bring the stories of individual pilots to the fore. All the early RAF aces are here, as well as the stories of the FEW who didn't fare so well.

What I like about the book is its narrative style. It is easy to digest, and compulsive reading for those of us who are lazy and tend to skip through the campaign in France. This is the proof which Shamrock recommends as vital reading. Here are all the stories of the Hurricane pilots who thought that the Battle of France would be like " Dawn Patrol ", while it ended up being more like Custer's Last Stand ( no jokes, Skunky! ).

The book runs to about 420 pages, if you include the Notes and References. It divides roughly into : one half on the formation and composition of the RAF pus the Battle of France; the other half devoted to the Battle of Britain.

Sorry to twist the topic's tail, but I couldn't help but back up Shamrock's recommendation. I'm reading it at the moment ( for the second time! ) and I know that all you guys would love it!

I have to concur with all of you who have opted to vote for the Zero. It was a fast, light wonder-machine when it came up against all those crocks in the Far East....but when it faced competent fighters, it proved to be an agile, but unarmoured relic. A skilled pilot could make it turn on a sixpence, but if it got zeroed, it was gone! Once opponents got over its early war reputation, it was a cooked goose.

Cooked Goose

Crashed Zero

[timbo]

Mo - I take it you are including the P40 in that "crocks in the far east" statement