[mustangdriver]

Actually attacking a formation of B-17's is something that most German pilots did not like to do. "Attacking a B-17 was like trying to make love to a porqupine on fire", is what one German ace was reported as saying. The B-17 is my favorite airplane. I would have a hard time saying that it was overrated. I think Andy Rooney said it best. "If you were to have a contest between the B-17 and the B-24, the B-24 would win just about every event. But if you gave me a choice in flying over germany in a B-17 or a B-24, I would choose the B-17 every time."

[Folgore]

Originally Posted by mustangdriver

I think Andy Rooney said it best. "If you were to have a contest between the B-17 and the B-24, the B-24 would win just about every event. But if you gave me a choice in flying over germany in a B-17 or a B-24, I would choose the B-17 every time."

Maybe that says something about just how good the B-17's PR was...

That having been said, while the B-17's capabilities may have been inflated, it'd be tough to say the Fort was really that overrated. Not like, say, the Stuka. The Fort could do its job, take a lot of punishment, and still come home. It might have been more efficient to use other bombers (e.g., the B-24, the Mosquito), but the Fort certainly wasn't a failure.

[1250ships]

The B-17 was one of the few aircraft of its generation that was able to serve during the entire war. Most planes that first flew in 1935 were not in front line combat in 1945. The first Mosquito did not fly until five years later.

[jim]

Even the very best of the Luftwaffe had problems with the Fort, it was a tough bird to kill and it was a toss up who got killed first the fighter or the Fort.

Galland said that the only way to attack a Fort was head on pass and then keep going all the way home (or the American fighters would get you). Never but never a attack from behind.
In the case of heavy bombers in my mind there is no contest, the Forts ability to deliver its load was the best of the day.
The Lanc was good at carrying heavy loads but not as capable of taking the sort of punishment that the Fortress could.

No I dont think the Fort was overated.

We discussed the bomb capability on the forum once before. (it was a very good thread).

[Epapazian]

I never ment to imply that the B-17 was a failure, however its capabilities were vastly over promoted and still are in many cable rehashes of WW II, books, etc. In the same spirit, I would also nominate our beloved F6-F "Hellcat". Here, again, we have a very rugged fighter with a sterling kill ratio, especially against poorly trained Japanese pilots of the mid- to late-war period. The stats are indeed impressive. F6-Fs shot down three times as many enemy planes as F-4U "Corsairs". But those who cite such tallies as proof of the F6-F's prowess, rarely mention the number of missions flown, which heavily favors the "Hellcats", at least from carriers. If the F6-F was actually superior, why wasn't it kept in and service after WW II , like the F4-U? Now before everyone rushes to defend the "Hellcat" against my rash verdict, let me point out that Japanese aces flying fighters like the "George" or the KI-100 often performed very well in combat with experienced F6-F pilots on those rare days when the odds were somewhat even. Just to be clear, I think that the "Hellcat" like the B-17, was a fine plane and did a great job for us during WW II. I feel that both are overrated, relative to the performance, or capabilities under equal circumstances, of other planes.

[wmosner]

All the bombers were failures if precision bombing counts for anything. I can't recall which P-51D pilot said it but he stated that the Mustang could have done a much better job hitting the actual target and with a lot less planes required to do it.

[Gort]

Not that I agree with this particular sentiment, but a bunch of warbird enthusiasts feel the Fw-190 D-series was at least the match of the P-51D – and perhaps better. Not that that devalues the Mustang’s superlative reputation. But you’ve got to wonder if the Mustang’s preeminence would have survived had it faced the Fw-190D in equal numbers with equally skilled pilots.

[jim]

Originally Posted by Gort

Not that I agree with this particular sentiment, but a bunch of warbird enthusiasts feel the Fw-190 D-series was at least the match of the P-51D – and perhaps better. Not that that devalues the Mustang’s superlative reputation. But you’ve got to wonder if the Mustang’s preeminence would have survived had it faced the Fw-190D in equal numbers with equally skilled pilots.

What ifs are interesting topics Gort.

A few good friends and some beer and what ifs keep the conversation going into the late hours without fail.

[1250ships]

Originally Posted by Gort

Not that I agree with this particular sentiment, but a bunch of warbird enthusiasts feel the Fw-190 D-series was at least the match of the P-51D – and perhaps better. Not that that devalues the Mustang’s superlative reputation. But you’ve got to wonder if the Mustang’s preeminence would have survived had it faced the Fw-190D in equal numbers with equally skilled pilots.

Not to pick on Gort but this type of comparison doesn't consider what really made the Mustang great- the ability to fly from the UK to Berlin, fight, and then fly back. Range matters and there was no way an Fw-190D was going to be able to do anything similar. If you put 109s, 190s, or Spitfires in the Pacific they would have been swallowed up by the distance. Which was one of the crowning achievements of the Japanese Zero- it could cross vast spaces and perform effective (at least in 1942) when it arrived.

[Gort]

Originally Posted by 1250ships

Not to pick on Gort but this type of comparison doesn't consider what really made the Mustang great- the ability to fly from the UK to Berlin, fight, and then fly back. Range matters and there was no way an Fw-190D was going to be able to do anything similar.

Which was probably the P-51D’s ace in the hole. She was a great all-around ship in her own right, but that humongous gas tank made her a world beater. Can’t win a war if you can’t get to the battlefield. Or something like that.