[Alph]

Hi Guys,
I can't imagine this aircraft landing under fire. Composite rotors don't like bullets hitting them. They do have an idea for a civilian version the Bell 609 that would be great for the Coast Guard. I've heard lot's of accidents and fatalities have occured during trials with the Marines. Novel idea for Say Border Patrol but I'm just a viewer of these neat looking aircraft. Revel made this model in 1/72 years ago but I never built it though. Yes there were several attempts in the past but viability is a key issue when deploying such a complicated machine. Transition from vertical to conventional flight with Rpg's flying at it does not sound too good. They do plan to deploy this in IRAQ I heard.."Scary"
Alph

[FormerViperDriver]

Alph, it's not like our conventional helicopters have been doing too well in combat recently. Seems there's one falling out of the sky every couple of days, with lots of casualties.

My prediction: the MV-22 will be far more survivable in Iraq/Afghanistan, because it can fly high enough and fast enough in cruise mode to avoid shoulder-fired SAMs and RPGs, which is where conventional helos have problems. The other Osprey advantage (very significant) is that is is much quieter than a helo, and therefore enjoys a measure of "noise stealth." In other words, it does not announce from miles away that it's coming, like normal helos do.

It is true that it may be somewhat more vulnerable to ground fire right in the drop zone, but since heliocpoters are already ultra-vulnerable there, maybe it's a good thing. The Army and Marines may finally learn not to go into an opposed LZ with those kinds of assets, unless they are willing to take massive casualties. Better plan: land somewhere where there isn't too much known AAA/ground fire and make the infantry walk the extra mile.

FVD

[FormerViperDriver]

Originally Posted by djjeffhall

Yes, absolutely yes, I would purchase an Osprey. I used to live right near one of the airbases in Wilmington, DE were they were testing the Osprey. Please, some one make one in 1:72. (Okay, make one in 1:48 for FormerViperDriver too. He's a good guy even if he does like weird scaled aircraft. Please take that in the jester like manner offered. )

Don't worry djjeffhall, I'd buy it in 1/72. I like 1/48 best, but I'm really a multi-scale collector.

Either one will work.

FVD

[Hoverbug]

Originally Posted by FormerViperDriver

Alph, it's not like our conventional helicopters have been doing too well in combat recently. Seems there's one falling out of the sky every couple of days, with lots of casualties.

My prediction: the MV-22 will be far more survivable in Iraq/Afghanistan, because it can fly high enough and fast enough in cruise mode to avoid shoulder-fired SAMs and RPGs, which is where conventional helos have problems. The other Osprey advantage (very significant) is that is is much quieter than a helo, and therefore enjoys a measure of "noise stealth." In other words, it does not announce from miles away that it's coming, like normal helos do.

It is true that it may be somewhat more vulnerable to ground fire right in the drop zone, but since heliocpoters are already ultra-vulnerable there, maybe it's a good thing. The Army and Marines may finally learn not to go into an opposed LZ with those kinds of assets, unless they are willing to take massive casualties. Better plan: land somewhere where there isn't too much known AAA/ground fire and make the infantry walk the extra mile.

FVD

Exactly. The doctrine behind the Osprey is that it goes where the bad guys aren't, which is presumably much more likely with the greater range range it offers. This also demands greater intelligence as to enemy dispositions than we have had in past conflicts. The Marines are hoping to use UAVs to solve this issue, but we know how relying on promises of good intelligence have turned out.

Radar-wise, the Osprey is as unstealthy as you can get and with top speeds of less than 300kts, it's not going to evade many SAMs. However, it is indeed quiet and is a good platform for situations where integrated air defenses are not prevalent. With 5 gearboxes, numerous extremely high pressure hydraulic lines and many other critical components, it is a substantially less survivable aircraft than current helicopters, so it will have to depend on having air supremacy to a greater extent than any previous air assault platform. The problem comes in when (and not if) the enemy casts its "vote" and pulls off a successful ambush. One Osprey is conservatively worth 180 UH-1Hs in today's adjusted dollars, so losing even two in one engegement may be considered a defeat.

I think Osprey really does have some great potential in its ability to greatly expand the range and payload envelope of current platform, but the deck is stacked against it to a great extent, and the next few years are likely to be every bit as difficult for the program as the last decade has been.

[Alph]

I agree with your trains of thought,but the second point that's made of hot LZ is still problematic.Counter measures/properly placed armor/stop leak fuel tanks and seats that will absorb the compressions crews experience during ground impact. I hope the best for the machine. And yes I'd buy a model of it but will probably carve one before a diecast appears. 19 thousand feet is the limit for any helicopter "FYI" Alph

[Hoverbug]

Originally Posted by Alph

I agree with your trains of thought,but the second point that's made of hot LZ is still problematic.Counter measures/properly placed armor/stop leak fuel tanks and seats that will absorb the compressions crews experience during ground impact. I hope the best for the machine. And yes I'd buy a model of it but will probably carve one before a diecast appears. 19 thousand feet is the limit for any helicopter "FYI" Alph

Yes, the Osprey has a higher ceiling than current helicopters, but it's range (which is what makes it worthwhile) suffers greatly once it starts climbing above 10K. If it wants to go deep, it's doing so low and (relatively) slow. Unfortunately, no amount of contermeasures will stop a 12.7mm round or RPG.

[jim]

Many thanks for jolting my memory Hoverbug.

Seems like Gort had the same vibration problems. As to the tow I hope they didnt charge by the mile.

[Gort]

Originally Posted by jim

Seems like Gort had the same vibration problems. As to the tow I hope they didnt charge by the mile.

Didn’t cost me a dime, Jim. Klaatu’s mother-in-law hitched a chain to my old bucket and yanked it across the galaxy. Nice old dame, I might add.

[Nockers]

Is this what you are talking about

[aeroeng]

I've got this wooden one in 1:48 scale. It's really a big aircraft. Would be super cool if Franklin Mint would make a die-cast of it in 1:48 scale.