[KG_Jag]

Without debating the specifics or your assertion, the same rule applies--let the facts shine through. We are able to deal with it. Indeed it greatly assists is making the best and most accurate determinations and decisions in the present.

[timbo]

Originally Posted by mustangdriver

But the governments of our countries don't mind doing that when it is protecting thier butt. When TWA Flight 800 went down, the government didn't let the facts get in the way of saying that it was a center fuel tank explosion. Even though they don't have one shred of evidence. So history is importatn only in certain lights, why strip these guys of some of their accomplishments?

What!!!! - The NTSB proved that it was a combination of the empty center fuel tank, and the delay on the ground combining to heat this tank. Vapors are highly explosive.

Even if they lost none or 25 bombers, their accomplishments should be honored. They were a ground breaking group in more ways than one.

This makes their accomplishments much more believable than saying that they lost no planes, which is highly improbable to say the least.

[mikeb1958]

Originally Posted by mustangdriver

But the governments of our countries don't mind doing that when it is protecting thier butt. When TWA Flight 800 went down, the government didn't let the facts get in the way of saying that it was a center fuel tank explosion. Even though they don't have one shred of evidence. So history is importatn only in certain lights, why strip these guys of some of their accomplishments?

I don't think that anyone is trying to take away from their accomplishments, but in the past all we heard about the Tuskegee Airmen was dispite having to overcome racism and hardships was "Not one bomber was lost due to enemy aircraft while the Tuskegee Airmen were flying escort missions". Well, I always found that kind of hard to believe that any Fighter Group (white, black, green, whatever..) during WWII could make that claim anyways. With all the sorties that were flown that at least one German, Japanese, Italian, etc aircraft would of got through the fighter protection to get to the bombers. So, I say "Let the facts speak for themselves" and 'Semper Fi'. Or as ole Gunny would say from 'Mail Call"....Hoooo Rawwww".

[chiefs70]

The facts are absolutely central to the integrity of all of our veterans. I know my brother, uncles, grandfathers and great uncles don't want comic book versions of their war experiences. The truth does not tarnish their accomplishments rather it raises them to greater respect because the truth is always more than a good story. If they lost zero or 100 bombers it doesn't make a difference to what they accomplished. The fact is that they were highly skilled and dedicated pilots who were requested as escorts by white bomber crews. The fact the surviving members are upset probably has less to do with the fact that the record is questioned as much as it is yet another obstacle put in front of them. Seeing as they faced continual racism and resistance to become pilots and then serve in combat I imagine they are quite simply tired of the constant struggle and the fact that even now, 60+ years later, they are still having to explain themselves and justify what they accomplished. They were common men who possessed uncommon determination and valor and rose to the occassion despite the odds stacked against them. To me that is the most important point in the story of the Tuskegee Airmen.

As I pursued my undergrad in history it quickly became clear that history is never finished being written and as we get further from the time in which the events occurred the truth often becomes more clear. I think it is important that we do not aggressively attack the accounts and character of veterans or intentionally seek to discredit their recollections - after all, they generally admit they only know what has happening in their small part of the battle/campaign. However, if we don't constantly pursue the truth then there is little point in taking pride in our history. How many men and women have been forgotten by history only to be rediscovered by later generations and recognized for their contributions? How many veterans receive their due - whether veteran status or the MOH - years after the fact due to the diligent work of historians?


Finally, if truth and accuracy doesn't matter then I guess we've seen the last of the "the color is wrong, the nose gear doesn't look right and I don't like the dihedral on the wings" threads - after all, why insult the artist and workers who designed the mould and painted the models?

[mustangdriver]

I am not saying that the truth doesn't matter, just why now 60 years later when there are just a few guys left bring all of this up. Wait a few years until they are gone, and then figure that all out. And by the way my comments on 800 are justified. They proved that by blowing up a fuel tank in the desert. Do you know what they used to blow the tank? Propane, because they couldn't get the jet fuel to explode. There is alot of stuff with that crash that is really out there.

[TopHat]

Originally Posted by bsmith13

This has been debated in other threads, but I'll repitch my $.02 here.

Telling what really happened should be the job of any historian. And whether the Tuskegee Airmen lost any bombers or not during escort missions has absolutely no impact on the fact that they deserve our respect.

+1


I see it as somewhat analogous to wearing a Bronze Star Medal that was legitimately awarded, but adding a spurious Valor device which wasn't.

Does not diminish the respect which should be accorded to the individual having received the honor, but begs the question why they felt the need to lie. And, yes, the silence is a lie if the known facts were not in accord with the legend. The individuals had a duty to correct the record if it was incorrect, IMO.

[FormerViperDriver]

Originally Posted by mustangdriver

I am not saying that the truth doesn't matter, just why now 60 years later when there are just a few guys left bring all of this up. Wait a few years until they are gone, and then figure that all out. And by the way my comments on 800 are justified. They proved that by blowing up a fuel tank in the desert. Do you know what they used to blow the tank? Propane, because they couldn't get the jet fuel to explode. There is alot of stuff with that crash that is really out there.

Better call Mulder and Scully on that one!

FVD

[mustangdriver]

You guys can say what you want about 800, but areodynamics are on my side.

[STARMAN 352ND]

Either way i feel they did a outstanding job as a fighter group and they were called to duty to go to war and fought it with pride and honor...
Now wait just a minute here how did that 800 story get in this thread.
JP

[mhackl]

I say if it's true then it's true, and if it's not then it's not. Profound I know, but the status of these gentlemen isn't deminished even if this information turns out to be true. Considering average bomber losses they still would have done great job. I think that if this information is true that it would be an inappropriate story to tell. I wouldn't bestow honor on a legend but rather on the merits of actual service.

It would be easy to wrongly assume that I buy into this newly touted research, but the fact is that I don't know what's fact and what's not. I have a great deal of respect for these men for what they went through and accomplished outside of their kill and protection records. I believe that alone would prevent their legacy from ever being tarnished.