[MoMo]

..... and now the French have had to put out the Olympic flame and bus it through Paris.

The Games are dead !

[Rush104]

Originally Posted by MoMo

The Games are dead !

Good, let's keep it that way. I truly hope the Olympics turn into a PR disaster for the Chinese regime. It would be nice if all the countries in the world that promote "freedom and democracy" have the balls to boycott the games (especially at the last minute) as a slap to the Chinese over the issues of Taiwan, Tibet, human rights violations, intellectual property theft, etc. It probably won't do much to change the thinking of the corrupt bastards running that country, but hopefully it makes them a worldwide laughingstock for quite some time. Maybe they will learn to do things better if they're humiliated on the world stage...

[Cardinal]

Originally Posted by Rush104

Good, let's keep it that way. I truly hope the Olympics turn into a PR disaster for the Chinese regime. It would be nice if all the countries in the world that promote "freedom and democracy" have the balls to boycott the games (especially at the last minute) as a slap to the Chinese over the issues of Taiwan, Tibet, human rights violations, intellectual property theft, etc. It probably won't do much to change the thinking of the corrupt bastards running that country, but hopefully it makes them a worldwide laughingstock for quite some time. Maybe they will learn to do things better if they're humiliated on the world stage...

Boycotting sporting events rarely works and only serves to victimize the athletes and entrench the views of those being boycotted (psychology of resisting perceived outside pressure). It never ceases to amaze me as to how quick people are to call for boycotts without engaging in deeper thought as to the possible consequences, both intended and unintended. In some cases boycotts can indeed be justified, but in this particular case I believe that 'engagement' is a better long term strategy.

Feel free to disagree with my opinion and, if you feel sufficiently strongly about it, consider imposing a self-imposed boycott on all your diecast manufactured in you know where - hypocrisy wrapped up in the flag of 'not-so-righteous' indignation if you ask me ...

[Shawn 507]

While I agree China needs a good butt kicking, boycotting the games just screws the players. And dispite what are good friend from Scotland has to say, not all are doped up. But all the protests before this haven't changed China's mind, these over the games wont either.
-Shawn

[Rush104]

Originally Posted by Cardinal

Boycotting sporting events rarely works and only serves to victimize the athletes and entrench the views of those being boycotted (psychology of resisting perceived outside pressure). It never ceases to amaze me as to how quick people are to call for boycotts without engaging in deeper thought as to the possible consequences, both intended and unintended. In some cases boycotts can indeed be justified, but in this particular case I believe that 'engagement' is a better long term strategy.

Feel free to disagree with my opinion and, if you feel sufficiently strongly about it, consider imposing a self-imposed boycott on all your diecast manufactured in you know where - hypocrisy wrapped up in the flag of 'not-so-righteous' indignation if you ask me ...

You know Cardinal, that's not a bad idea. Maybe it is time to quit wasting money on diecast.
And, you're right. Maybe "engagement" is the right course. Maybe while we're engaging the Chinese, they'll eventually realize the error of their ways and start being good neighbors, after they forcibly take Taiwan.
Engagement's a nice idea, it's in the finest spirit of Neville Chamberlain.
China needs to learn that in order to be accepted and respected on the world stage, there are certain standards of behavior that they need to adhere to. They'll never learn that lesson as long as we keep appeasing (I mean engaging) them.

[Cardinal]

Originally Posted by Rush104

You know Cardinal, that's not a bad idea. Maybe it is time to quit wasting money on diecast.
And, you're right. Maybe "engagement" is the right course. Maybe while we're engaging the Chinese, they'll eventually realize the error of their ways and start being good neighbors, after they forcibly take Taiwan.
Engagement's a nice idea, it's in the finest spirit of Neville Chamberlain.
China needs to learn that in order to be accepted and respected on the world stage, there are certain standards of behavior that they need to adhere to. They'll never learn that lesson as long as we keep appeasing (I mean engaging) them.

Rush104, there is a considerable difference between the concepts 'engagement' and 'appeasement' . Also, within this context we're discussing the merits/demerits of sporting boycotts, which might I add is a door that you opened in this thread.

'Standards of behaviour' could apply to many nation states and perhaps it may be prudent to also reflect on those 'behaviours' taking place closer to home - the corporate greed and deficits that have contributed to the current 'global' economic downturn have their point of origin where may I ask?

All I'm saying is that one must practice what one preaches, irrespective of whether you're an individual, a corporation or a nation state. Hypocrisy and rhetoric are often the flipside of the same coin.

[Rush104]

Originally Posted by Cardinal

Rush104, there is a considerable difference between the concepts 'engagement' and 'appeasement' . Also, within this context we're discussing the merits/demerits of sporting boycotts, which might I add is a door that you opened in this thread.

'Standards of behaviour' could apply to many nation states and perhaps it may be prudent to also reflect on those 'behaviours' taking place closer to home - the corporate greed and deficits that have contributed to the current 'global' economic downturn have their point of origin where may I ask?

All I'm saying is that one must practice what one preaches, irrespective of whether you're an individual, a corporation or a nation state. Hypocrisy and rhetoric are often the flipside of the same coin.

I'm not going to dispute you on the last part Cardinal; but, may I suggest you look at it like this-
China can be viewed as the new kid in school, who happens to be a bully. He's trying to make a name for himself. In doing so, he's picking on people, demanding their lunch money, etc. Some appease him. What does this do? It encourages him to keep acting like a jerk. The only way this guy backs down and starts conforming is if people start standing up to him, and acting on/enforcing their own principles. That's what it's going to take for China to start acting like the "modern day" nation that they are claiming to be.
China views the Olympics as a golden opportunity to promote that image. Maybe if that image got tarnished, it might START to plant the seed in the Chinese leaders minds that as a nation, they need to start acting more responsibly.
And you know something else, you are absolutely right about one thing- the constant outsourcing of jobs/skills/money to China has been a huge factor in promoting this kind of behavior. I'm sure the promoters of such ideas tried to justify their courses of action by saying that it these would have beneficial effects for everyone, like bringing change to the Chinese system of government. We're seeing how well that idea is working.
China, because of all the prosperity it has been enjoying the last couple of decades, reminds me of a person who starts believing all the hype being told to him by the sycophants around him. After a while, all the BS starts going to his head, and he believes he can act any way he damn well pleases. An occasional reality check is needed to bring that person back to earth. Maybe boycotting the Olympics is the reality check that China needs right now.

[Cardinal]

Originally Posted by Rush104

I'm not going to dispute you on the last part Cardinal; but, may I suggest you look at it like this-
China can be viewed as the new kid in school, who happens to be a bully. He's trying to make a name for himself. In doing so, he's picking on people, demanding their lunch money, etc. Some appease him. What does this do? It encourages him to keep acting like a jerk. The only way this guy backs down and starts conforming is if people start standing up to him, and acting on/enforcing their own principles. That's what it's going to take for China to start acting like the "modern day" nation that they are claiming to be.
China views the Olympics as a golden opportunity to promote that image. Maybe if that image got tarnished, it might START to plant the seed in the Chinese leaders minds that as a nation, they need to start acting more responsibly.
And you know something else, you are absolutely right about one thing- the constant outsourcing of jobs/skills/money to China has been a huge factor in promoting this kind of behavior. I'm sure the promoters of such ideas tried to justify their courses of action by saying that it these would have beneficial effects for everyone, like bringing change to the Chinese system of government. We're seeing how well that idea is working.
China, because of all the prosperity it has been enjoying the last couple of decades, reminds me of a person who starts believing all the hype being told to him by the sycophants around him. After a while, all the BS starts going to his head, and he believes he can act any way he damn well pleases. An occasional reality check is needed to bring that person back to earth. Maybe boycotting the Olympics is the reality check that China needs right now.

You've made sound points here Rush104 although I personally don't think that a sports boycott will have the desired effect. Boycotts often result in isolation and it is contact and the resultant flow of ideas between the different strata in society (from the food vendors to the politicians) that often sow the seeds of change. In my opinion, the Olympic Games offer an opportunity to sow the seeds for the change that is undoubtedly needed and required .

Let's also spare some thought for all those Olympic athletes who've been training for the past number of years as well as the ideals that the Games are supposed to represent.

(Good debate though - we can blame MoMo .)

[Shawn 507]

Careful Rush, you risk a lecture from MoMo on being a bully without bullying. Afterall, we should take China in our arms and give them a big ole' hug.

[Cardinal]

Originally Posted by Shawn 507

Careful Rush, you risk a lecture from MoMo on being a bully without bullying. Afterall, we should take China in our arms and give them a big ole' hug.

Now who's 'stirring the pot' .