[MoMo]

Hi Shawn,

I guess that we've reached an impasse again, and will have to agree to differ.

Just for the record, I too will stand 100% behind our forces.....I always have. My dad was an old soldier of WW2, and I wouldn't wish it any other way; my father taught me that you soldier on and back the boys. You may have some idea what I think about those who direct our forces. I think that my country should only go to war for a legitimate reason.

Hi Cav,

I don't know what two diametrically opposed socio-political-theistic entities would say to one another. I guess that if it ever happened we might all get an awful fright. Some good might come from it but, like most, I doubt it.

The point is that it would, at least, make things clearer for everyone.

If those who wish to represent their views and religion to others wish to do it through peaceful means let them try, and good luck to them. If they wish to impose their beliefs and political views, I will oppose that. If they wish to impose their views through force, I will oppose that.

I think the above represent the feelings of most of us in the west.

I don't think that a dialogue, however conducted, would do any harm. At the very least it would help to clear up some grey areas.

Many western countries want to bring the culpable to book. I would like that too. The tiny forces which try to promote militant action in the east seem to offer an opportunity for the west to prosecute the capture of those who are wanted. But, at the same time, it offers armed militants the chance to attack western forces wherever they detect a weak spot.

There is little point in confronting the sophistication of the west by conducting a conventional campaign. There are many benefits which accrue to the militants wherever the west deploys against them: they can claim that they represent the anti-western view; they can gain massive publicity for their cause; they can win short, sharp incursions; they can influence the decisions of potential recruits by showing force.

It seems to me that those who oppose our way of life box cleverly, and only fight the battles from which they can gain kudos.

Endless war of this type is not a good prospect. We need to talk about it.

[Cavtanker]

Originally Posted by MoMo

Hi Shawn,

I guess that we've reached an impasse again, and will have to agree to differ.

Just for the record, I too will stand 100% behind our forces.....I always have. My dad was an old soldier of WW2, and I wouldn't wish it any other way; my father taught me that you soldier on and back the boys. You may have some idea what I think about those who direct our forces. I think that my country should only go to war for a legitimate reason.

Hi Cav,

I don't know what two diametrically opposed socio-political-theistic entities would say to one another. I guess that if it ever happened we might all get an awful fright. Some good might come from it but, like most, I doubt it.

The point is that it would, at least, make things clearer for everyone.

If those who wish to represent their views and religion to others wish to do it through peaceful means let them try, and good luck to them. If they wish to impose their beliefs and political views, I will oppose that. If they wish to impose their views through force, I will oppose that.

I think the above represent the feelings of most of us in the west.

I don't think that a dialogue, however conducted, would do any harm. At the very least it would help to clear up some grey areas.

Many western countries want to bring the culpable to book. I would like that too. The tiny forces which try to promote militant action in the east seem to offer an opportunity for the west to prosecute the capture of those who are wanted. But, at the same time, it offers armed militants the chance to attack western forces wherever they detect a weak spot.

There is little point in confronting the sophistication of the west by conducting a conventional campaign. There are many benefits which accrue to the militants wherever the west deploys against them: they can claim that they represent the anti-western view; they can gain massive publicity for their cause; they can win short, sharp incursions; they can influence the decisions of potential recruits by showing force.

It seems to me that those who oppose our way of life box cleverly, and only fight the battles from which they can gain kudos.

Endless war of this type is not a good prospect. We need to talk about it.

Mo, it is difficult to combat an enemy that is fighting with a prisoners-dilemma mentality. In this manner, they cannot win against the west, but what can they do to prevent the west from achieveing its maximum gains. I believe the west can negotiate with the rational actors. But there will most likely never be any negotiation with any hardened opponents. Our terms will never be acceptable to them, and their terms will never be acceptable to us.

[Cardinal]

What I appreciate about this debate is that, although the opinions are diverse, it is conducted in a 'relatively' appropriate spirit of respect and civility - definitely an example of how sensitive topics can be discussed on the forum without 'flaming' out .

[Shawn 507]

Originally Posted by Cardinal

What I appreciate about this debate is that, although the opinions are diverse, it is conducted in a 'relatively' appropriate spirit of respect and civility - definitely an example of how sensitive topics can be discussed on the forum without 'flaming' out .

Well we can't let that happen, so to you. LOL

[Cavtanker]

Originally Posted by Cardinal

What I appreciate about this debate is that, although the opinions are diverse, it is conducted in a 'relatively' appropriate spirit of respect and civility - definitely an example of how sensitive topics can be discussed on the forum without 'flaming' out .

I try my best to engage in dialogue that is focused on earnest appreciation of another's comments and views. I have learned a lot in life (especially after I got home from Iraq) through keeping an inquisitive mind and open ears.

[Elmer]

Originally Posted by Cavtanker

Jim, it may already be here...but no one has noticed it yet.

I'm tellin' you guys... you gotta read Londonistan by Melanie Phillips. There is still hope for the UK.

[jim]

Originally Posted by Cavtanker

Mo, I think it's probably the case of ourselves being told that we are winning, and themselves being told that they are winning. I believe that 'success', 'goals', and 'winning' all have different definitions. Unfortunately, we cannot measure 'success' by territory gained as in previous wars. Now we have to measure 'success' in hearts and minds, which is much more difficult.

There is no heart and there is only crazed hatred in the mind.

You cannot reason with those that have none.

In Britain today we have the enemy within that seeks to turn Britain into an alien state.

Little by little its happening, by the time people wake up to the fact it may be too late.

I think its too late already.

Hmmm , here I go getting into areas that are not suitable for a diecast forum,
I think I will retire from discussion now.

[Cardinal]

Originally Posted by Shawn 507

Well we can't let that happen, so to you. LOL

C'mon Shawn, I'm just being my pretentious self ...

[Shawn 507]

Originally Posted by Cardinal

C'mon Shawn, I'm just being my pretentious self ...

Well I wouldn't want to disappoint ya!

[MoMo]

Our terms will never be acceptable to them, and their terms will never be acceptable to us.
Cavtanker

But what are our terms, Cav ? I don't think that they'd really be the same for every country in the west.