[swoop]

As a non American observant, I have learned from the discussions on this thread. Common sense and and humanist qualities are prevailant in American society. Anxiety is often the precursor to bad decision making. You have the big stick, use it sparingly, but well. Thanks Doug for your insight. I wish you and your family well. I'm certain, with your understanding, you and your family will endure.

[Rush104]

If I remember my history correctly, Iran has always been the key to the Middle East. Before Islam and Oil, whether it was called Persia or Iran, this country has always been considered to be the most important in that region. And, remember recent history- even though Saudi Arabia has always had greater reserves of oil, our Middle East policy was built around Iran and the Shah. When the Shah was ousted, that's when we shifted our focus to the Saudis. I have a feeling that if Iran can get free of the grip of the mullahs and the other extremists, our attention will shift back to Iran. Just something that might want to be kept in mind in any future dealings/confrontations with the Iranians...

[DADoser]

First -
My apology for hijacking this thread and throwing a personal unrelated situation I am dealing with into a reply. My ideas were just flowing - and, as if talking to a group of friends (in a Pub), I threw that in the discussion.

Thanks for the posts of public support for my family.

Again, I was not trying to snuff out the relevant political discussion. I'm thankful that the discussion has come back to the original post.

I think we have a great group/community here and appreciate every perspective/opinion that is brought "to the table."

Take care and thanks,
Doug

[Elmer]

Originally Posted by DADoser

Nor does Zakaria mention (in that article) the United States/CIA involvement in installing the Shah of Iran and overthrowing a democratically elected Iranian government in 1953.

Not one of our shining moments... I agree. Nor was the first Bush administration's encouragement of Shi'a and Kurdish Muslims to rise up and overthrow Sadam Hussein, and then withdraw and watch thousands of Shi'a and Kurds get slaughtered. Nor was the second Bush administration's rash invasion of Iraq. Nor was the escaltion of the Viet Nam conflict; I could go on and on, but what is the point. We all know our government has made mistakes and will continue to make mistakes. This is what imperfect people and imperfect governments do, make mistakes. Who was it that said "democracy is the worst form of government... except for all the rest." Where would this world be without the American Revolution, and American intervention in WWI, WWII, and the cold war? This nation has saved political/social environments for freedom loving peoples all over the world.

Originally Posted by DADoser

When president Bush makes rhetorical statements about "freedom being God's gift to the world"

A value/ideal which I also share and hold dear...

Originally Posted by DADoser

as well as "invading Iraq so the Iraqis can be free and democratic.....The Iranians can point to our history - 1953 and our support for Saddam Hussein in the Iran/Iraq war (1980's) and fairly label America as being hypocritical - whether we like it or not, they have an issue...

I have no problem with this. They can hold their issue with us and I would empathize with it and work toward electing politicians that will be more responsible international actors; but their issue does not excuse the seizure of a sovereign embassy and the capture and hostage taking of foreign citizens that broke NO international law. They continue to cry they are victims of American aggression and then commit aggression themselves. This is not responsible behavior for any citizen of the world, or any government; they flip logic on its head and attempt to turn aggressors into victims and vice versa. Their issues extend beyond our history going back to 1953. The Iranian regime imposes Sharia law on its citizens (fine); it also imposes de facto Sharia law on citizens of other countries (not fine), when those law abiding citizens violate Sharia law (e.g. Salman Rushdie). Let's not forget who is the great Satan (the U.S.) and who first used this label (Tehran), decades before Bush announced Iran into the Axis of evil (not wise, I admit).

Originally Posted by DADoser

So.....where are we now with Iran and them getting the nuclear bomb? In a very difficult, complex position. I just don't think threatening to bomb them and bringing up WW3 imagery is the best solution or way to "protect" America...

...or the remainder of the western world, I agree with you. Bush's rhetoric can get carried away, going beyond the bounds of prudence. On the other hand, President Carter was so very careful with his rhetoric and statesmanship, and look where that got us with Iran... nowhere. I would love nothing more than for Tehran and Washington D.C. to put aside differences, shake hands, and seek amicable peace-loving, live and let live values. But... we most hold a bottom line. Tehran must stop threatening Israel with nuclear destruction. Tehran must stop issuing "fatwas" of death on foreign citizens living lawfully and peacefully in other parts of the world. Tehran must abondon long held Muslim beliefs and commitments to a final Muslim worldwide conquest, by force and the sword if necessary. And Washington D.C. must also make concessions. I am not suggesting we bomb Iran. All I am suggesting is that if Iran acquires the means to deliver a nuclear weapon on Tel Aviv, and attempts to do so, WWIII has started. Tehran is using the more inflammatory and dangerous rhetoric, not Washington D.C.

Originally Posted by DADoser

I don't know what the solution really is - but I know it isn't to have a dualistic, Black/White, Good/Evil, interventionist, nation-building strategy regarding American foreign policy, I think that approach is too simplistic in a complex world of our own creation.

An excellent point. We do need to use complex thinking in a complex world. However, there are some things that are dualistic: pleasure/pain, sickness/health, and yes, good/evil. We all sometimes make mistakes that have evil consequences; we then wish to salve the pain with a false philosophy that there is no such thing as good and evil. We do this at our own peril, for evil may come upon us and destroy us. For our own self-preservation, we must be wise enough to recognize evil and fight it. Is our memory of 9/11 growing so dim and are we becoming so complacent that we cannot recoginze that a "socio/politico/religio" that teaches its adherents to massacre and cause untold pain and suffering is, indeed, evil? And while these 9/11 mass murderers were not Iranian (indeed, they were mostly Saudi... think on that one), isn't Iranian rhetoric of Israel's destruction and holocaust denying, evil? Who really is the "Great Satan"? My american upbringing teaches me it is not America, even with its faulty foreign policy.

Originally Posted by DADoser

Rant over.................
[I've been trying not to get too involved in this thread. A couple weeks ago I had an epiphamy regarding my 15 year old daughter; began putting the pieces together; and last thurday she was diagnosed with High Functioning Autism - Asperger's Syndrome. My family has struggled with this for the past 12 years without understanding or the needed patience. At least now we know what we are dealing with and where to go - to a degree - from here. Thanks for reading this last little bit regarding me personally. I know this is a good community of caring individuals - regardless of our different political/historical perspectives. If you pray, send one up for My daughter and our family as we begin to learn how her mind works and make the best adjustments for her future. Thank you. Doug]

No ranting done, DADoser. I respect your writing and your valid points. And I wish you all the best with the difficult road ahead of you.

[Captain Eddie]

Originally Posted by Elmer

Who was it that said "democracy is the worst form of government... except for all the rest."

I can't say for sure, but I know it has been credited to Winston Churchill.

[flyXwire]

I too will echo the sentiments expressed by the others above towards your daughter. God bless.

[Shawn 507]

Best wishes for your daughter. My son has SVT which can turn his resting heart rate from 90 BPM to 270 BPM in a snap of the fingers. It sure sucks when the kids suffer from crap like this.

[Rush104]

For what it's worth-

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1192380641058&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtri...iraq_10_24.asp

[gbeck]

Doug,
This may not be the thread to post this on, but the thread to our hearts is what counts. You can be assured that me and my family will definitely put the power of prayer to task. This is the least we can do, that has the greatest potential of all things we have available. God Bless!

GBeck

[Elmer]

Originally Posted by Rush104

For what it's worth-

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...cle%2FShowFull

There is some irony in that story! Thanks for posting!