[Aircrafty]

I agree MoMo, if more countries cut back military spending there would be fewer wars because they wouldn't feel a need to justify the stupid expense.

It's much better for a country to feed and look after its own people rather than poke their nose into the affairs of others. Natural laws of defence dictates that countries only require sufficient ships, aircraft and weapons to defend their own country. It's when they have weapons that threaten other countries that the global balance is upset. Aircraft carriers, missile carrying submarines and most ships larger than a small destroyer are offensive weapons in all respects, not weapons of self defence.

[Captain Eddie]

Originally Posted by Aircrafty

I agree MoMo, if more countries cut back military spending there would be fewer wars because they wouldn't feel a need to justify the stupid expense.

It's much better for a country to feed and look after its own people rather than poke their nose into the affairs of others. Natural laws of defence dictates that countries only require sufficient ships, aircraft and weapons to defend their own country. It's when they have weapons that threaten other countries that the global balance is upset. Aircraft carriers, missile carrying submarines and most ships larger than a small destroyer are offensive weapons in all respects, not weapons of self defence.

Are you saying that the USA did not need aircraft carriers and ships larger than small destroyers when we were attacked by Japan December 7, 1941, that we could have defended ourselves primarily with small destroyers? I think not!

[admin]

Peace through strength

Nations need formidable offensive and defensive capability's at all times. My grandmothers neighborhood street was burglarized six times last year, including the houses on either side of her. Now, I'm willing to bet that she hasn't been messed with because it's well known that she packs a 357, and knows how to use it. My dad's pistol packin' mama.

~

Historically, the argument that "we are not currently faced with the threat major warfare" has proven to be fool's folly. It's said that we don't have anything to be concerned about with nations like China, well I can't say that I'm aware of any significant military draw down by the PRC.

China is the superpower that no one wants to acknowledge, and that's dangerous.

[MoMo]

Historically, the argument that "we are not currently faced with the threat major warfare" has proven to be fool's folly. It's said that we don't have anything to be concerned about with nations like China, well I can't say that I'm aware of any significant military draw down by the PRC.

China is the superpower that no one wants to acknowledge, and that's dangerous.

Ain't it ironic? Every piece of die-cast which you buy sends pennies into China's war chest!

They just wanna be like the other big kids on the block and have the same toys.

MoMo

[jim]

Hmm That sounds familiar......... Ah yes Germany 1910. Yes lets all disarm. Think of all the happy people we would make in the world, North Korea, Iran, Nah no point in listing them all, you know who they are. Do I feel under threat? You bet I do , London Bombings, New York, Nah I wont list them all, you know about them. Yep lets all disarm!!!!!.....It would seem that there is strength in weakness!! HUH!!!!!!!....................................






They just wanna be like the other big kids on the block and have the same toys.

MoMo[/quote]

[Cardinal]

Originally Posted by Aircrafty

Aircraft carriers, missile carrying submarines and most ships larger than a small destroyer are offensive weapons in all respects, not weapons of self defence.

Be honest Aircrafty, are you just trying to stir the debate pot or do you really subcribe to this view . In my view the logic is untenable ...

[Cardinal]

Originally Posted by Captain Eddie

Are you saying that the USA did not need aircraft carriers and ships larger than small destroyers when we were attacked by Japan December 7, 1941, that we could have defended ourselves primarily with small destroyers? I think not!

I have to agree with you on this Cap'n Eddie, "I (also) think not!"

[skysurfer808]

Originally Posted by MoMo

Ain't it ironic? Every piece of die-cast which you buy sends pennies into China's war chest!

They just wanna be like the other big kids on the block and have the same toys.

MoMo

Here Here.

More like dollars. And avoid a direct monetary comparison when it comes to defense budgets. Billions go a lot further in China than they do in the USA, especially since China is able to make so much of its stuff in house.

The Right Honorable Gentlemen ought to be aware of People Republic's latest acquisition, a genuine 1/1 Scale Aircraft Carrier, and some 1/1 scale Su-33 Sea Flankers to arm her.

http://www.sinodefence.com/navy/surf...aftcarrier.asp

http://www.sinodefence.com/news/2006/news06-10-24.asp

They certainly got a bargain on the Varyag, and the Sea Flankers will provide a potent anti-air capability for the People's Liberation Army Navy. (That's how they say it there.) So if the People's Republic is following a peaceful nation's path, how come they are acquiring an Aircraft Carrier?

To me China represents something like the USA in the early 20th century, a potential superpower which is content to make money rather than build an empire. Still, the flag follows trade, and China's merchant marine has grown into one of the biggest in the world while the Western World's declines. China builds, ships, and cashes in, while the USA exports debt and raw materials. In many ways this situation is a mirror image of the 19th Century, when China was at the mercy of the Western Powers.

So, while the West withers, China prospers. The Royal Navy's decline is symptomatic of the deline of the West in general. Empires prosper by husbanding resources. Britain's system endured precisely because the British kept out of major land conflicts and used the control of the seas to regulate world trade, with London as the regulator. When Britain got embroiled in the World Wars, it lost its Empire. America took over, and now finds itself embroiled in 2 ongoing land conflicts. But these aren't splendid little wars. These are spreading US power thin, and weakening Imperial America at a time when it needs to husband it's strengths to deal with future threats.

Skysurfer808

[SKUNKY]

Originally Posted by Cardinal

Be honest Aircrafty, are you just trying to stir the debate pot or do you really subcribe to this view...

Aircrafty?...stir up the pot? ......Surely, you jest ....................and yes, I called you Shirley.

[MoMo]

So, while the West withers, China prospers. The Royal Navy's decline is symptomatic of the deline of the West in general. Empires prosper by husbanding resources. Britain's system endured precisely because the British kept out of major land conflicts and used the control of the seas to regulate world trade, with London as the regulator. When Britain got embroiled in the World Wars, it lost its Empire. America took over, and now finds itself embroiled in 2 ongoing land conflicts. But these aren't splendid little wars. These are spreading US power thin, and weakening Imperial America at a time when it needs to husband it's strengths to deal with future threats.

Skysurfer808

Sorry, the Brits had a hand in just about every major conflict in Europe from the time of the Roman Empire onward...( mainly the English )and the rest of the world from the 16th century onward. That's why we ended up with the biggest empire which the world has ever seen!

Why did Julius invade Southern England ( then leave )? Because the Britons were flogging arms to the Gauls and making a fast buck.

This has been the British game ever since those far off days. Support the second strongest power in Europe against the strongest. Support them with arms, money, ships and other supplies and let them do the major part of the fighting. When the strongest mainland Europen power is worn down and weakened, in step the Brits. They either : (a) clobber the weakened power or (b) broker a deal ( with some advantage to England/Great Britain ) and appear as peacemakers. Britannia smiles like an angel upon the gathered nations and we can all sleep self-righteously again, humming
" Jerusalem " as we nod off.

You don't get to steal half the world from its rightful owners unless you lie, kill, conive, cheat and weasle your way to Empire.

The Navy was used to run a protection racket for the benefit of trade. That is true. What contempt the British showed the rest of the world. As if the " English " Channel was the maritime M1 and the navy were the Georgian/Victorian traffic cops of the seas!

Empire..Shmempire! The Swiss never had one, and they're as happy as Larry!

Will the Chinese wake up to the knowledge of what happened to The Soviet Union when it spent all its dosh on nice,new toys for the boys? Implosion!

Oh, well. I'd hate to be around when the spending stops and the accounts are audited!

MoMo