[smartd]

Originally Posted by HotTrap429

That's why I'm not interested in any Russian WWII birds.

Count me in, could care less about WW2 Russian aircraft. Looked at the Corgi Soviet Hurricane tonight, could not bring myself to buy it. I did buy the JSDAF 104. Had to get my diecast fix.

[Berkut76]

Originally Posted by smartd

Count me in, could care less about WW2 Russian aircraft. Looked at the Corgi Soviet Hurricane tonight, could not bring myself to buy it. I did buy the JSDAF 104. Had to get my diecast fix.

That was an RAF bird stationed in the Soviet Far North for a brief period in the Fall of 1941. No interest from me, either.

That's why I'm not interested in any Russian WWII birds.

Everyone has different tastes, that's perfectly OK. For example, I don't have any interest in any of pre-WWII US planes which saw no action like F3F. The same applies to Cold-war types that didn't flew in combat.

I probably would have bought F3F in 1:72 for novelty factor, but not going to buy one in 1:48 unless Hobby Master delivers on long-promised I-16.


Regards,

Sergey

[theodore]

Originally Posted by Shawn 507

Why not do a poll? I personally see nothing in these Russian birds you all are asking for. And thats not just the old Cold War BS coming out. I really don't see anything interesting about them. I guess they would have interesting histories fighting against Nazi Germany. But compared to Luftwaffe aircraft, even I'll give a nod to the Germans. And Soviet jets don't spin me up either.
So I suggest a poll and see what the interest is? I wish those of you who want them luck.

I hate to burst your bubble, Shawn, but the Soviet La-7 (and the La-5FN, for that matter), along with the Yak-9 and the Yak-3, between 8,000 and 12,000 feet, where the majority of combat took place on the Eastern front, could fly rings around any variant of the FW-190 and Bf-109. The La-7 is regarded as one of the top Allied fighters of WW2, along with the versatile Yak-9. The Tupovlev Tu-2 was probably the best all-around medium bomber of WW2. This aircraft was very fast, well-armed, had an excellent payload, and good range. This was an extremely manueverable bomber for its size and could absorb a good deal of punishment and still remain aloft!! Many German WW2 historians stated that they completely underestimated the quality of Soviet fighters and bombers and their well-trained pilots of the VVS from 1943 onward. This is the reason why you have some forum members showing support for WW2 Soviet aircraft like myself, Cruver, Folgore, ac4313, Berkut (for obvious reasons!! ), etc.

I say that Hobby Master should concentrate on a La-7 and then the endless different variants of the Yak-9!! I would prefer these in 1/48th scale, but 1/72nd will work as well!!

[Shawn 507]

Originally Posted by theodore

I hate to burst your bubble, Shawn, but the Soviet La-7 (and the La-5FN, for that matter), along with the Yak-9 and the Yak-3, between 8,000 and 12,000 feet, where the majority of combat took place on the Eastern front, could fly rings around any variant of the FW-190 and Bf-109. The La-7 is regarded as one of the top Allied fighters of WW2, along with the versatile Yak-9. The Tupovlev Tu-2 was probably the best all-around medium bomber of WW2. This aircraft was very fast, well-armed, had an excellent payload, and good range. This was an extremely manueverable bomber for its size and could absorb a good deal of punishment and still remain aloft!! Many German WW2 historians stated that they completely underestimated the quality of Soviet fighters and bombers and their well-trained pilots of the VVS from 1943 onward. This is the reason why you have some forum members showing support for WW2 Soviet aircraft like myself, Cruver, Folgore, ac4313, Berkut (for obvious reasons!! ), etc.

I say that Hobby Master should concentrate on a La-7 and then the endless different variants of the Yak-9!! I would prefer these in 1/48th scale, but 1/72nd will work as well!!

No bubble burst here, sorry. The story / history of Red Air during the Great Patriotic War is neglected I'll give you that. Outside of those who like you, who are into Red birds. I've never met many that want to discuss Soviet WW2 aircraft. Sure the Sturmovick comes up, but only when it comes to busting tanks. As for their bombers, again I've never heard of them. Maybe Stalin's propaganda machine didn't extend to the west during the war. Maybe they needed a Volograd Vania, I don't know and I don't care.

But if Soviet birds were so great how did the Germans rack up as many kills as they did? Was it because they butchered those early Red birds everyone wants so badly. Again, I don't know. My interest in the Russian front is in armor only. The Germans under-estimated more than the air threat when they drove east, but that is another discussion.
However, I don't see the graceful lines in Russian aircraft, and for that matter. Japanese, French or Italian ones as you and others do. There must be a reason noone has touched these besides IXO.
If this makes me a shallow imature person in your opinion, so be it. We are hear to discussion and express our thoughts on the hobby and industry. These thoughts are mine and mine alone. If you don't agree fine. That is your choice, just as I chose not to agree with the calls for all these aircraft.
The only positive thing I can see in doing these and other not so interesting aircraft, is the assault on my wallet will end.
Have a nice day!!

[leeG]

The air war on the Eastern Front was probably the largest air campaign in history. Cold war politics kept accounts of these actions off our radar screens. The collapse of the old Soviet Union finally allowed an opening of official records and the emergence of first hand Soviet pilot accounts of the air fighting to appear in the West. Air historians are also now plowing this fertile ground, with the "Black Cross Red Star" series by Bergstrom and "Attack of the Airacobras: Soviet Aces, American P-39s, and the Air War Against Germany" by Dmitriy Loza as examples. And let's not forget that the flight simulation "IL-2" has probably done more to educate Westerners to the Eastern Front air war than just about anything else.

Soviet types such as the MiG-3, LaGG-3, La-5FN ,La-7 and the Yak series are just as significant historically as the Bf-109, Fw-190, Spitfire, Mustang and Zero. That it wasn't PC for a time to even think about these airplanes doesn't diminish their importance or their contribution to the defeat of Nazi Germany.

I'm hopeful that the long neglected Soviet aircraft will finally become worthy subjects for the major diecast manufacturers. There are lots of German models available with yellow theater bands. What exactly were all those aircraft doing? As far as the diecast makers are concerned (IXO excepted) those German planes were just flying around joyriding. If you are buying German Eastern Front models, let's stop pretending Soviet aircraft didn't exist.

Please buy what you like. My collection is currently organized by theater: European (BoB / Defense of the Reich), Mediterranean (Italy/North Africa), Eastern Front, and Pacific Carrier War. I need a lot more Soviet (and Japanese) models to fill the shelves.

[Cruver Collecter]

Just as long as no one starts bad mouthing my Polish favorites. Ah,,, PZL P.11C, PZL P.23 Karaś or the PZL P.37 Los. Now those were some streamlined beauties,,,,, wait a minute,,,, ok not so streamlined and kind of bulky, but I like them. Well at least the PZL P.37 Los was a little more leaning toward the streamlined side. WWII aviation history, I like it.

[theodore]

I agree Leeg; Soviet aircraft of WW2 have been neglected for some time now. I think this stems from 2 primary reasons: lack of any accurate data on these aircraft and the 'Cold War' impacting the United States' former enemy. The reason that the Russian T-34 has been produced heavily by diecast manufacturers is the fact that this tank revolutionized armored designs immediately. Unfortunately, Soviet aircraft did not have this enormous impact, and, since they were the 'enemy' of the US for the past 45 years or so, the popularity of their aircraft waned.

To answer your question, Shawn, about why the Germans racked up huge kill totals, you need to look at the Pacific theater and see the exact same parallel with Japanese pilots and their aircraft against American aircraft and their pilots in 1942; lack of quality aircraft and quality pilots. The USN and USAAF simply did not have the aircraft or tactics designed to combat the superior training of the Japanese pilots and the superlative Zero that they flew. The kill ratio was 6 to 1 in 1942 in favor of the Japanese. As the US was able to adapt tactics, train pilots, and design better aircraft, then this was reversed in 1945 to 8 to 1 in favor of the US. This applies to the Eastern front where Bf-109's and Fw-190's were superior, initally, to the Mig 1, Mig 3, I-16, I-153 (desperate times calls for desperate measures!!), and so on. The Stalin purges of the late 1930's left the VVS (Soviet air force) with no leadership, lack of any front-line fighters, any organized training program for pilots, etc. Once the USSR was able to 'absorb' this inital phase of combat on the Eastern front, then the kill ratio was reversed. In 1941, the kill ratio was 11 to 1 in favor of the Luftwaffe; in 1945, it was 5 to 1 in favor of the VVS (it would have been much higher, but for the lack of targets). Just like the Hellcat and Corsair were designed to combat the Zero, the La-5FN, La-7, Yak-9, and Yak-3 were designed to combat the Bf-109's and Fw-190's. Soviet pilot training was far superior to Luftwaffe pilot training (the 20 hours was a blessing!!) in 1945.

If Hobby Master ever made a Pe-2 or a IL-4, then that would blow my mind!!

[Shawn 507]

Originally Posted by Cruver Collecter

Just as long as no one starts bad mouthing my Polish favorites. Ah,,, PZL P.11C, PZL P.23 Karaś or the PZL P.37 Los. Now those were some streamlined beauties,,,,, wait a minute,,,, ok not so streamlined and kind of bulky, but I like them. Well at least the PZL P.37 Los was a little more leaning toward the streamlined side. WWII aviation history, I like it.

Now that you mention it .....

PS I have a Polish bird, but its a Mustang. LOL

[Cruver Collecter]

Originally Posted by Shawn 507

Now that you mention it .....

PS I have a Polish bird, but its a Mustang. LOL

At least you have a Polish bird in your collection (Ok still a P-51, but with Polish connection). Finally put a PZL P.11C on order the Squadron last week. Nice 1/48th scale kit. Not diecast, but will have a Polish warbird in my collection.

[Shawn 507]

Originally Posted by Cruver Collecter

At least you have a Polish bird in your collection (Ok still a P-51, but with Polish connection). Finally put a PZL P.11C on order the Squadron last week. Nice 1/48th scale kit. Not diecast, but will have a Polish warbird in my collection.

Well there are the Gabreski birds too, do they count? Spitfire, 2 x P-47s and a F-86. Now if HM would do his F-100!!