[Lakota Mech]

Originally Posted by FormerViperDriver

OOOhhhh! What a beaut! And I am a 104 fan (of its looks anyway).

Guess that one may have to come join the FVD collection.

FVD

I have liked the F-104 since I was about 10 years old. (of its looks anyway) Its like a beautiful woman nice to look at but really not good for much of anything.

[PappyB]

Originally Posted by Lakota Mech

Its like a beautiful woman nice to look at but really not good for much of anything.

I think perhaps you're doing something wrong?

[Lakota Mech]

Originally Posted by PappyB

I think perhaps you're doing something wrong?

YA THINK? LOL

[roh_kudus]

What a beautiful women you said? To me it looks like a glossy flying penis(excuse the language).

Don't get me wrong I like F-104. It was not that successful in US but elsewhere it sold well especially in Western European countries with Germany being the largest operators. Italy still have them in service in 2000(can you believe it?). I don't know about now though.
Greece also upgraded these flying penis to serve more years in their Air Force.

It was fast. In fact it was NASA's chasing plane for many many decades before it was replaced by the F-18.

I read it was the only plane capable of keeping up with the F-18. It was F-104 which perform the role of chasing plane in F-18 test flights. It's an irony that the F-18 eventually replaced them in this role.

The Israelis were itching to get them before 1973's war(err I think?!). Somehow they didn't get any.

I'd love to have the george scheme. I didn't buy it when I saw it in my regular toy shop then. Don't like the fiddle bits. But I really like chrome planes........

[Lakota Mech]

Originally Posted by roh_kudus

What a beautiful women you said? To me it looks like a glossy flying penis.

Don't get me wrong I like F-104. It was not that successful in US but elsewhere it sold well especially in Western European countries with Germany being the largest operators. Italy still have them in service in 2000(can you believe it?). I don't know about now though.
Greece also upgraded these flying penis to serve more years in their Air Force.

It was fast. In fact it was NASA's chasing plane for many many decades before it was replaced by the F-18.

I heard it was the only plane capable of keeping up with the F-18. It was F-104 which perform the role of chasing plane in F-18 test flights. It's an irony that the F-18 eventually replaced them in this role.

The Israelis were itching to get them before 1973's war(err I think?!). Somehow they didn't get any.

I'd love to have the george scheme. I didn't buy it when I saw it in my regular toy shop then. Don't like the fiddle bits. But I really like chrome planes........

You are correct The 104 was one of the few aircraft to keep up with the B-58 and the XB-70. In fact it was way ahead of its time and too much airplane for alot of pilots. The armament was somewhat limited except for the F-104S I think it had 3 hardpoints per wing and the S stood for the Sparrow missle upgrade if I' not mistaken. One thing for certain if I am People here will let me know.

[roh_kudus]

Thanks for the additional info Lakota I knew the F-104 was fast, I mean just look at that thing called fuselage and a little tiny wings . She looks more like a flying rocket than a plane . In fact her appearance reminds me of the German Nazi's V ballistic rockets BUT I didn't know she was able to keep up with XB-70. Must be some speed. I'm glad the pilot sits in an enclosed pressurized cockpit otherwise the guy would look like he was 90s by the time he landed the craft. Those wrinkles and extra skins because of the winds....

[Rush104]

Originally Posted by roh_kudus

What a beautiful women you said? To me it looks like a glossy flying penis(excuse the language).

Don't get me wrong I like F-104. It was not that successful in US but elsewhere it sold well especially in Western European countries with Germany being the largest operators. Italy still have them in service in 2000(can you believe it?). I don't know about now though.
Greece also upgraded these flying penis to serve more years in their Air Force.

It was fast. In fact it was NASA's chasing plane for many many decades before it was replaced by the F-18.

I read it was the only plane capable of keeping up with the F-18. It was F-104 which perform the role of chasing plane in F-18 test flights. It's an irony that the F-18 eventually replaced them in this role.

The Israelis were itching to get them before 1973's war(err I think?!). Somehow they didn't get any.

I'd love to have the george scheme. I didn't buy it when I saw it in my regular toy shop then. Don't like the fiddle bits. But I really like chrome planes........

You are correct about Israel requesting F-104s, however they made the request in 1960 due to the imminent Egyptian and Syrian purchases of MiG-21s. They also made requests to purchase the Saab 35 Draken and the BAC Lightning. All were turned down. At the time, Israel was looking to reduce its dependence on France as its main supplier of arms. The F-104s were refused to Israel due to a US arms embargo dating back to 1950. IIRC, the embargo was finally lifted when we decided to sell HAWK missiles to Israel in 1962. By that time, the Mirage III was on its way to Israel.
Concerning the F-104's service with the USAF- originally, the USAF was going to purchase 676 F-104s of the A/B/C/D models; however due to teething troubles with the 104 and the changing requirements for interceptors (wanting planes with advanced fire control systems, radar-guided missiles, lots of fuel for increased loiter time, etc) these orders were whittled down until only 296 models of all types were procured.
According to the book The Pentagon Paradox: The Development of the F-18, by James P. Stevenson, this abandonment of the F-104 may have hurt the Air Force during the Vietnam War. Of all the Century Series fighters, the only one that came close to possessing all of the characteristics of the traditional fighter was the F-104. The author makes a convincing (IMO) argument that the money used to upgrade the F-4 into an air-to-air capable fighter should have been put into the F-104 instead. He argues that it would have only taken 1/10th the amount of money that was sunk into the F-4 to turn the F-104 into the best fighter of the Vietnam War, one that was even better than the F-8 (which was the best air combat capable fighter we had).

[smartd]

Originally Posted by Rush104

.
According to the book The Pentagon Paradox: The Development of the F-18, by James P. Stevenson, this abandonment of the F-104 may have hurt the Air Force during the Vietnam War. Of all the Century Series fighters, the only one that came close to possessing all of the characteristics of the traditional fighter was the F-104. The author makes a convincing (IMO) argument that the money used to upgrade the F-4 into an air-to-air capable fighter should have been put into the F-104 instead. He argues that it would have only taken 1/10th the amount of money that was sunk into the F-4 to turn the F-104 into the best fighter of the Vietnam War, one that was even better than the F-8 (which was the best air combat capable fighter we had).

F104 a fighter? Where can I get the drugs this author uses?

[Rush104]

Originally Posted by smartd

F104 a fighter? Where can I get the drugs this author uses?

Other than the manouverability (which is where most of the money would have been used for the upgrade), it did possess the other attributes wished for in a fighter- speed, climb rate, acceleration, small size, good pilot visibility, and weapons load (specifically, the internal gun).
Also, the design was started after Kelly Johnson's conversations with fighter pilots who had fought in Korea- it was optimised to fulfill their wishes for an aircraft that could go higher and faster than anything the enemy had.

[smartd]

Originally Posted by Rush104

Other than the manouverability (which is where most of the money would have been used for the upgrade), it did possess the other attributes wished for in a fighter- speed, climb rate, acceleration, small size, and weapons load (specifically, the internal gun).
Also, the design was started after Kelly Johnson's conversations with fighter pilots who had fought in Korea- it was optimised to fulfill their wishes for an aircraft that could go higher and faster than anything the enemy had.

One of my favorite aircraft.
CF tried it in a fighter role it ended up in the ground attack role, one pass and gone. It had the basics as you note above but we did not have onboard fly by wire to help the driver back then, as would certainly be needed. Would be a cool modeling project to turn one into a pure fighter. Would like to see how it morphs into a traditional gunfighter, add the needed wing improvements etc.
Any Photoshop wizards out there?