[HotTrap429]

Originally Posted by hawkonevoodoo

The P-61 isn't dead they are trying very hard to find ways to make this a financially viable model.

Hawk,

Here's a list of some units that used the P-61 during WWII.

Black Widow Wartime Units


Wartime units using the P-61 included:

• 6th Night Fighter Squadron, Seventh Air Force. Received Black Widows in May 1944. Served in Guadalcanal, New Guinea, Saipan, Iwo Jima. Inactivated February 1947 and reactivated as 339th All Weather Squadron.
• 414th Night Fighter Squadron, Twelfth Air Force. Received Black Widows in December 1944. Served in Algeria, Sardinia, Corsica, Italy, plus detachment to Belgium. Inactivated August 1947 and reformed as 319th All Weather Squadron.
• 415th Night Fighter Squadron, Twelfth Air Force. Received Black Widow in March 1945. Served in Italy, Corsica, France, Germany. Inactived September 1947.
• 416th Night Fighter Squadron, Twelfth Air Force. Received Black Widow in June 1945. Served in Italy, Corsica, France, Germany. Inactived November 1946 and redesignated 2nd Fighter Squadron (All Weather).
• 417th Night Fighter Squadron, Twelfth Air Force. Received Black Widow in April/May 1945. Served in Italy, Corsica, France, Germany. Inactived November 1946.
• 418th Night Fighter Squadron, Fifth Air Force. Received Black Widow in September 1944. Served in New Guinea, Philippines. Inactivated February 1947 but reactivated August 1948 as 4th All Weather Squadron.
• 419th Night Fighter Squadron, Thirteenth Air Force. Received Black Widow in May 1944. Served in New Guinea, Philippines. Inactivated February 1947.
• 421st Night Fighter Squadron, Fifth Air Force. Received Black Widow June 1944. Served in New Guinea, Philippines. Inactivated February 1947. Reactivated august 1948 as 68th All Weather Squadron.
• 422nd Night Fighter Squadron, Ninth Air Force. Received Black Widow May 1944. Served in England, France, Belgium, Germany. Inactivated September 1945.
• 425th Night Fighter Squadron, Ninth Air Force. Served in England, France, and Germany. Inactivated August 1947.
• 426th Night Fighter Squadron, Fourteenth Air Force. Received Black Widow September 1944. Served in India, China to protect B-29 bases from attack. Inactivated November 1945.
• 427th Night Fighter Squadron. Served briefly in Italy then moved to India, Burma, China. Received Black Widow in August 1944. Inactivated October 1945.
• 547th Night Fighter Squadron, Fifth Air Force. Activated March 1944 with P-61. Served in New Guinea, Philippines, Ie Shima, Japan. Inactivated February 1946.
  
  548th Night Fighter Squadron, Seventh Air Force. Activated April 1944 with P-61. Served in Saipan, Iwo Jima, Ie Shima. Inactivated December 1945. Reactivated in 1969 as the 548th Combat Training Squadron. Still in service.
• 549th Night Fighter Squadron, Seventh Air Force. Activated May 1944 with P-61. Served on Saipan, Iwo Jima. Inactivated February 1946.
• 550th Night Fighter Squadron. Activated June 1944. Received first Black Widows January 1945. Served in New Guinea, Philippines. Inactivated January 1946.

If HobbyMaster can't make this model "financially viable", then I'm really worried. I'd easily buy 2 - a black one and an O.D. one. I mean I still haven't bought one of their beautiful Avengers because I'm waiting for them to make the "good" versions I'm sure they'll have coming later on. So a P-61 - lots of pent-up demand out there.

[hawkonevoodoo]

Originally Posted by HotTrap429

Hawk,

Here's a list of some units that used the P-61 during WWII.

Black Widow Wartime Units


Wartime units using the P-61 included:

• 6th Night Fighter Squadron, Seventh Air Force. Received Black Widows in May 1944. Served in Guadalcanal, New Guinea, Saipan, Iwo Jima. Inactivated February 1947 and reactivated as 339th All Weather Squadron.
• 414th Night Fighter Squadron, Twelfth Air Force. Received Black Widows in December 1944. Served in Algeria, Sardinia, Corsica, Italy, plus detachment to Belgium. Inactivated August 1947 and reformed as 319th All Weather Squadron.
• 415th Night Fighter Squadron, Twelfth Air Force. Received Black Widow in March 1945. Served in Italy, Corsica, France, Germany. Inactived September 1947.
• 416th Night Fighter Squadron, Twelfth Air Force. Received Black Widow in June 1945. Served in Italy, Corsica, France, Germany. Inactived November 1946 and redesignated 2nd Fighter Squadron (All Weather).
• 417th Night Fighter Squadron, Twelfth Air Force. Received Black Widow in April/May 1945. Served in Italy, Corsica, France, Germany. Inactived November 1946.
• 418th Night Fighter Squadron, Fifth Air Force. Received Black Widow in September 1944. Served in New Guinea, Philippines. Inactivated February 1947 but reactivated August 1948 as 4th All Weather Squadron.
• 419th Night Fighter Squadron, Thirteenth Air Force. Received Black Widow in May 1944. Served in New Guinea, Philippines. Inactivated February 1947.
• 421st Night Fighter Squadron, Fifth Air Force. Received Black Widow June 1944. Served in New Guinea, Philippines. Inactivated February 1947. Reactivated august 1948 as 68th All Weather Squadron.
• 422nd Night Fighter Squadron, Ninth Air Force. Received Black Widow May 1944. Served in England, France, Belgium, Germany. Inactivated September 1945.
• 425th Night Fighter Squadron, Ninth Air Force. Served in England, France, and Germany. Inactivated August 1947.
• 426th Night Fighter Squadron, Fourteenth Air Force. Received Black Widow September 1944. Served in India, China to protect B-29 bases from attack. Inactivated November 1945.
• 427th Night Fighter Squadron. Served briefly in Italy then moved to India, Burma, China. Received Black Widow in August 1944. Inactivated October 1945.
• 547th Night Fighter Squadron, Fifth Air Force. Activated March 1944 with P-61. Served in New Guinea, Philippines, Ie Shima, Japan. Inactivated February 1946.
  
  548th Night Fighter Squadron, Seventh Air Force. Activated April 1944 with P-61. Served in Saipan, Iwo Jima, Ie Shima. Inactivated December 1945. Reactivated in 1969 as the 548th Combat Training Squadron. Still in service.
• 549th Night Fighter Squadron, Seventh Air Force. Activated May 1944 with P-61. Served on Saipan, Iwo Jima. Inactivated February 1946.
• 550th Night Fighter Squadron. Activated June 1944. Received first Black Widows January 1945. Served in New Guinea, Philippines. Inactivated January 1946.

If HobbyMaster can't make this model "financially viable", then I'm really worried. I'd easily buy 2 - a black one and an O.D. one. I mean I still haven't bought one of their beautiful Avengers because I'm waiting for them to make the "good" versions I'm sure they'll have coming later on. So a P-61 - lots of pent-up demand out there.

Your list has been forwarded to Hobby Master. I don't know if it is a matter of units that is in question. I think the hold up is "which shade of black do you want" or "which shade of OD do you want". I think this whole thing depends on the nose art, is it that good that people will buy 2 or 3 black models? I should know relatively soon, at least I hope. I'll update any information on my news page ASAP.

[HotTrap429]

I hear you Hawk. But then, how did they come up with the Mirage 2000? Surely there are other jets that would make them a lot more money if they made them. And what about the Avenger? How many of those do they anticipate needing to "crank" out? While I truly love their models, some of their choices of planes and schemes really puzzle me - especially when many of the more desirable ones seem to be held back. But what the heck, I don't make those decisions - I just buy them (or not).

[1250ships]

Originally Posted by HotTrap429

I hear you Hawk. But then, how did they come up with the Mirage 2000? Surely there are other jets that would make them a lot more money if they made them. And what about the Avenger? How many of those do they anticipate needing to "crank" out?

Can't tell you about the Mirage but the Avenger can be done in a wide variety of liveries and operators. Nine nations operated them and almost 10,000 were built. There were many variations than could be put onto the basic mould. It served for 20 years through World War II and into the early 1960s meaning both Korea and Suez Crisis models are possible. It was the main US Navy torpedo bomber in World War II and carried most of the variations in livery that role called for. Among the scheme Hobby Master can do that will probably sell well are the Atlantic scheme US Navy bird, a Battle of Midway Avenger, a Guadalcanal era one, a Canadian bird, a Japanese post-war one, and if the mould can handle it a post-war US Navy ASW bird with the revised tail.

The P-61 on the other hand was only operated by the US and China, only a little over 700 built, and only was in operational service for 8 years. Because of their role they only had limited number of paint schemes. If you expand to included test aircraft and civil versions you have more options but realistically I don't think civil versions sell that well compared to the military schemes. You can perhaps do the Reporter model as well if the basic design of the model can be altered. All in all not many ways to spread the cost and risk of the mould. You have to gamble on how many people are going to buy multi versions of the same basic paint scheme with just the nose art and squadron markings changed. Even here on this board you see people saying "I'd buy one black and one olive drab one". That is not enough- you need people who will be multiple copies of various black and olive drab schemes.

Sadly the same economics of diecast mean I'm unlikely to get many aircraft I'd like- the TBD Devastator for one example since there were only 129 built and at most I can think of 4 or 5 livery options for her. And perhaps a bit ironic I have yet to buy an Avenger. There are several I'd love to have but I've been on a buying spree for Corgi deals on older models and haven't had the dough to buy newer releases.

[HotTrap429]

You raise good points 1250ships but my question remains - seriously how many Avengers do you realistically see in your collection? They are like B-17s - I'd like them all, but money and space wise I can probably handle what? 2 maybe 3. If HobbyMaster does make a P-61, I'd be surprised if they'd sell more than that to your average collector. Sure we've got those obsessive collectors who buy everything, but is that the "average" collector?

[STARMAN 352ND]

I will tell you this much...I will buy at least 2 of each one they make ....One for me and one for my uncle...
If they make 5 different nose arts that will be 10 planes at least...I think in the long run this P-61 project
will make HM alot of money due to the fact no other company has made it yet....If they wait to long another company
will pick up on it and do it and that will cut into HM money market...Time is very important on this P-61.
JP

[1250ships]

Originally Posted by HotTrap429

You raise good points 1250ships but my question remains - seriously how many Avengers do you realistically see in your collection? They are like B-17s - I'd like them all, but money and space wise I can probably handle what? 2 maybe 3. If HobbyMaster does make a P-61, I'd be surprised if they'd sell more than that to your average collector. Sure we've got those obsessive collectors who buy everything, but is that the "average" collector?

On Avengers I'm thinking 2 or 3 Pacific birds, an Atlantic one, a Royal Navy one, and at least one or two post war. If they come out with ones that make up an airgroup set (Hellcat/Wildcat, Dauntless, Avenger) I'd be sure to get them as I think carrier airgroup sets would make a nifty display. But I'm perhaps unusual in that regard.

I suspect this is not a question of "How many does a collector buy" and more of "How many collectors can we get interested." Not knowing what the sales numbers are like it is impossible to say but I would think if the FAA operated it there will be more sales in the UK for example. Wide use makes it more likely a particular collector will buy at least one example. So if someone says "I only buy aircraft operated by the RAF or FAA" he will be a candidate for an Avenger buy but wouldn't pickup a P-61.

The reason I think this is a big factor is that if you look at Corgi's catalog just about every Allied aircraft was operated by the RAF or FAA as well as the US. In many cases you get the obscure British version before other more "standard" liveries.

But I'm just guessing- know very little about the business of selling diecast planes! Ships I can tell you about....

[slammin]

I would really love to see this plane be produced. As far as basic schemes, I think you'd have an olive one, a black one, and a D-day stripped one. I also think this would be a fastastic opportunity to go to town on some nose art. I'd buy one of every release if they had some great nose art.

For right now I've settled for a couple of the Big Bird 1/144 plastic models of the P-61. These are toys that are made for the japanese market. They managed to come up with 2 decal options for each of the black and olive drab models, so that's four paint schemes already.

Also, as a last resort, I'd rather see a slightly increased price if that's what it took to get one of these. I don't know what the profit margin is on these models, but if HM makes say $5 a model, I'd be willing to pay $40 instead of $35 to ensure that it is still worth HM's time to do this model. That obviously wouldn't be true with every model or for everyone, but I think it is somehting to be considered when talking about a model with limited appeal, as compared to something like the other releases.

[flyXwire]

I would buy any two or three liveries regardless of colour or nose art if they made the P-61 tomorrow, period!

[jim]

I dont have anymore space but if they make a P61 then it looks like Lorraine will be standing in the yard!