[Nimrod48]

Originally Posted by bsmith13

Lol! Nimrod, that is the most concise and accurate summation of the British situation in 1940 that I have ever heard!

It does sound a bit simplistic but when one studies the logistics of the exercise it is quite clear (with hindsight) that what the Germans had was totaly unsuitable for an all out assault on the UK.

[dilligafocau]

Originally Posted by parsig9

Bugay was the lead historian behind the Spitfire Ace series on History Channel. The 4 part doc.

Heads up for the Aussies, ABC-TV is repeating Spitfire Ace commencing Friday 19th Jan 6.00pm (AEST). Check your local guides

This series (along with Bomber Crew) helped make me the sad diecast tragic I am today

[jim]

This is a subject that i have studied for 40 years. I think I have read every book on the subject and spoken to many people involved. Again I ask you to put your mind set back to 1940 and view this from the German perspective. Most of the British equipment was left in France. There was significant losses to the RAF in the French campaign. The British had troops but very little heavy armour or guns. The channel is very narrow and even in landing barges it is only a short trip. If a strong force can be landed quickly then a beach head would have been easy to hold, "IF" control of the air could be achieved. It has been shown that airpower can overcome seapower therefore the Royal navy threat could be countered. U boats and the German surface fleet was to be used. Dont forget the fleet of e boats the Germans had. It was calculated that the Luftwaffe could turn aircraft round in 20 minutes thus keeping the landing zone and channel constantly covered as well as supporting the troops "IF" control of the air could be achieved. There was complete agreement in the German army that a bridgehead could be set up and held until forces could be built up for the push on to the fighter bases and London. Therefore the whole crux of the invasion hinged on beating the RAF. The Germans never planned a major assault of the type the allies did on D Day. The plan was for a strong well equipped force to gain a beachhead and build from there. Remove the Royal air force and the island is ours was the attitude in the German planning room. Plans were drawn up for the campaign, targets and objectives named. There is no doubt that if the RAF lost the Battle of Britain then the invasion would have happend. Interesting to ponder what Europe would look like today had The RAF failed.

Originally Posted by Nimrod48

It does sound a bit simplistic but when one studies the logistics of the exercise it is quite clear (with hindsight) that what the Germans had was totaly unsuitable for an all out assault on the UK.

[Aircrafty]

I feel there are a number of people that base their beliefs on movies such as Battle of Britain etc that have convinced them that the Germans main objective was Britain. Clearly this was never the case as Hitler considered the British to have racial ties with the Germans.

To the best of my knowledge 'Mein Kamf' only mentions conquering Poland, Russia etc and then maybe England as an afterthought. Britain was never near the top of Hitler's list and he in fact could not understand why England declared war on Germany following the invasion of Poland. Hitler was always going to fight Russia which was his prime objective because of all the space and resources they had, especially oil.

If you compare the effort Hitler and the German forces made against Russia to the 'Battle of Britain' it is clear the 'invasion' of England was a mere sideshow to lull Russia into a false sense of security. Why is it so often overlooked that the Germans lost the vast majority of their weapons and soldiers in the war against Russia. Imagine what the Germans could have done against England if their resources were applied fully to the invasion of England. Don't forget that the Americans considered that Germany had already defeated England and were not prepared to help directly.

[MoMo]

I think that we need to assess the Luftwaffe's capability to attack ships, as well as airfields and aircraft on the attack.

In 1940, the german navy was not equipped to stand up to the British fleet, only to harrass and tie it down. Most of their captal ships were building or working up. Those in a state of readiness were well outnumbered. Their U-Boat fleet was pitifully small at this stage in the war. E-Boats were primitive and lacked the air defences that they later had added. They were also highly vulnerable to air attack.

The German airforce lacked suitable A.P. bombs to attack armoured ships, I believe. They also had little faith in long range fuel tanks because they never used then in the B.O.B. ( even though they were available ). Their aircraft were designed to interdict ground targets; to blast a path through defences and disrupt communications. They were never designed to attack battleships.

The Germans had a plan, but who drew it up and was it viable? There are many who served in the German forces who had their doubts. There are few landing places in the south of England where a force could have landed without meeting considerable difficulties and without being subjected to catastophic bombardment from the sea and air.

The Luftwaffe, I believe, would have been held at arm's length while the navy plastered the sea and beaches with a bombardment of such determination that the Germans would have been looking for their heads for weeks!

I know that this debate will go on and on, but we need to be realistic about the chances of a few hundred Rhine barges wallowing in the Channel while the seas errupted around them.

Anyway, it's all academic now. The RAF did the job and kicked Hilter's bony arse. It was close, some say, but we did it.

What would have happened if Hitler had won? Why, we'd all be driving on the right and reading about how a few misguided people had almost ruined our chance to join with the Germans in creating a new European Community with peace, harmony and love for all us blond, Saxon-Anglo survivors of the European Civil War.

Pax Germanica,

MoMo

[SKUNKY]

Driving on the right?....

How gauche!....

[MoMo]

Non, mon cher Skunky, a droit! A bas les Gauchists!

MoMo

[SKUNKY]

MoMo, I'm afraid I must refer you to paragraph 3 of the forum rules....

3. Swearing is strictly forbidden, this also includes substituting the letters with “***”. Offending posts will be deleted and the Member warned. This also includes swearing in Personal Titles and Signatures.

[STARMAN 352ND]

Originally Posted by MoMo

a droit! A bas les Gauchists !
MoMo

MoMo.....What in the world does that mean?
In English please.
JP

[jim]

I dont think the Luftwaffe thought of it as a side show. The Germans also thought they had defeated England. One last point, if you look at the losses sustained by the Royal Navy in the eastern med do you still say that the Luftwaffe had no ability to sink ships???????????????????

Originally Posted by Aircrafty

If you compare the effort Hitler and the German forces made against Russia to the 'Battle of Britain' it is clear the 'invasion' of England was a mere sideshow to lull Russia into a false sense of security. Why is it so often overlooked that the Germans lost the vast majority of their weapons and soldiers in the war against Russia. Imagine what the Germans could have done against England if their resources were applied fully to the invasion of England. Don't forget that the Americans considered that Germany had already defeated England and were not prepared to help directly.