[SKUNKY]

Originally Posted by jim

.( sorry about that but if its good enough the the US president to say its good enough for me)

Oh Jim, ...you'd never want to stoop that low.........

[planenuts]

Originally Posted by jim

The bullets came 2 weeks later!

Is this what they were looking for

[parsig9]

Dear Unsalted One,


Stockpiling of amunition is a seriuos offense and a threat to our national security.

If you insist on continuing this behavior you'll have to move to Texas or Montana.

Regards,


The Feds.

[MoMo]

Wow, gotta get into this debate!

BUT, without debating.

Time for a minor rant:

I hate the cheap revisionism that relies on taking one chicken out the coop and then crowing that I, historian X, have altered the perception of history for my generation. This kind of thinking is pure anti-history and denies history's usefulness.

I was lucky enough to be taught by teachers from my father's generation who knew what history was about, even if at that time they were ignorant of the existence of Bletchley Park and the team of gnomes who listened in on Hitler's Germany. History is about not making the same mistakes, they told me. I agree.

Let's start there. Hitler did not wish to repeat the same mistakes which both sides in WW1 made. He wanted to populate Europe with little blond boys and girls and he wanted to achieve his aim with minimal cost to his army.

However, in trying to avoid the mistakes of WW1 he succeeded in making many of his own. No intelligence. No navy ( the Z plan was in its infancy ). No strategic bomber force.

A string of easy victories against dissolute opposition gave him a big head and so he turned on Russia and engaged in the kind of two-front war which everyone dreaded.

Before he made the ultimate mistake of attacking the Soviet Union while Britain was still undefeated, he tried to cobble together a scrappy plan which was meant to neutralise Britain and bring her to the negotiating table, if not accidentally defeat her.

The german airforce, as you all know, was built as a support arm for the army. The German surface navy was a big stick to wave in the face of Britain in order to tie down the capital ships of the Home Fleet. Germany's surface raiders were a nuisance, to be sure, but they were dealt with, in the long run, by the navy, the air force, the fleet air arm and by intelligence and tactics learned the hard way.

The Battle of Britain stopped Hitler in his tracks. Any hope he had of bringing Britain to her knees was lost when he changed tactics and bombed London. The German High Command wanted RAF airfields destroyed without understanding that the airfields, planes and pilots were the only part of the iceberg which was showing. Much else was deployed by Britain to stem the onslaught of Nazi victory.

Dowding, radar, aircraft production and pilot training all kept pace with the Germans. BUT, the seeds of Britain's victory were sown long before Hitler tried to call our bluff in 1939. This is indisputable. I would not be writing this if it were not so.

Britain's navy could not have stopped Hitler because Hitler never had a cat's chance in hell of herding his makeshift landing fleet over the Channel with the RAF watching their every move. Germany's best chance of supporting their landing fleet was lying at the bottom of the Norwegian Fiords having been trapped and trounced by the British fleet doing what it did best. Their destoyers were mostly gone.

Without even a rudimentary escorting contingent the Raf and the navy would have torn the Germans apart. They had to forego that pleasure because the RAF had blunted the cutting edge of the Nazi war machine in the skies over England. With no really solid air cover the Nazis would have been fish food and Hitler's bluff would have cost him dear.

No. Hitler did not dare to try and invade Britain after the defeat of his airforce. The great gambler did not want another fiasco so he blew the hell out of London in order to save face and turned on what he thought would be an easy, but headline-grabbing, victory..the Russians. Every move he made after this point was a mistake, whether he won a tactical victory or not, he was beaten strategically. He did it mostly by himself.

The RAF won the Battle of Britain. This looked like an answer to a prayer.
This also created a legend which endures to this day.

However, we all know that it took much more to stop Hitler's creations from visiting their filthy, evil credo upon our shores.

MoMo

[STARMAN 352ND]

I'm a little leary of getting in here and saying a few things about the "Battle Of Britain" but i honestly remember my History teacher in College said that the RAF won it for England.
Plus he made us watch the movie with "The Battle of Britain".
But i must say also i never did hear a word about the Royal Navy's role in the Battle.
But after reading some of these post on this thread i have learned a few new things that i didn't know before about the hard fought battle.
Above all i'm very happy at how well you mates are handling the topic.
At this time i'm looking for a great book with all the facts about this great battle to save Britain from Germany.
If you Mates know of any let me know.
JP

[jim]

Well Mo thats concise and to the point. A good way to look at this is from the political angle. Go back to the early to mid 30s and study Hitlers beliefs and ambitions. Get the picture of the man. Then study all the documents found after the war. ( there are many books on this subject so a trip to the library would not go amiss) .Its fascinating stuff, Honest! You will learn facts and not opinions.The Nazis had death lists that contained the names of all manner of people in Britain. There were papers on how Britain would be governed. How about Mrs Simpson as Queen? But of most interest ,how the actual invasion would progress, although it is true that Hitler never planned to invade, he thought we would give up and indeed there were people in office who would have done so but for Churchill but thats another long story. I like the sinister statement made by Hitler, we will let them keep their empire "for the moment". Hitler had plans for the empire. It is said but not proven that he wanted to start a German colony in South Africa. This subject would need pages of detailed info and would bore everyone stupid. So to put it in a nutshell the RAF won the battle. The result was never in doubt. Ask any of the pilots. There are not many battles that change the course of world history but the Battle of Britain was most certainly one of them. Let us remember that the RAF was made up not just of British pilots but pilots from all over the world, God bless em,and without those chaps victory would not have been possible. Ultimate victory came because for once everyone pulled together for the common cause,(well nearly everyone) well, err not that many actually. You see? bloody politics again. Anyway those at the sharp end did.

[jim]

Hang in there Buddy ,when I get my memory working I will tell you the title of the best book ever written on the subject. I am having a senior moment here>

Originally Posted by STARMAN 352ND

I'm a little leary of getting in here and saying a few things about the "Battle Of Britain" but i honestly remember my History teacher in College said that the RAF won it for England.
Plus he made us watch the movie with "The Battle of Britain".
But i must say also i never did hear a word about the Royal Navy's role in the Battle.
But after reading some of these post on this thread i have learned a few new things that i didn't know before about the hard fought battle.
Above all i'm very happy at how well you mates are handling the topic.
At this time i'm looking for a great book with all the facts about this great battle to save Britain from Germany.
If you Mates know of any let me know.
JP

[jim]

Jim up in loft searching. now where the heck did I put that £$%^&*()) book. OOOHH yuk what did I just put my hand on??? I must get some proper lights up here.

[bsmith13]

The have about 14 books on BoB, including pilot bios and books like "Spitfire Mk I Aces of 1939-1941". By far the best work I have read is The Battle of Britain: The Greatest Air Battle of World War IIby Richard Hough and Denis Richards. You can get it in paperback on Amazon...

If you will pardon the tangent, if you have any interest at all in the Battle of Midway, read Shattered Sword.

[MoMo]

Len Deighton wrote a great book on the BoB called " Fighter ".

Len Deighton is very accessable and loves to speculate on the " what ifs " of the battle.

If you can get hold of it, " Fighter " is the best popular history book that I've ever read on the topic.

( Deighton wrote " Bomber " , " The Ipcress File " et al ... )

MoMo