[STARMAN 352ND]

MoMo and flyXwire let's not get it too heated on this topic.

JP

[flyXwire]

Originally Posted by STARMAN 352ND

MoMo and flyXwire let's not get it too heated on this topic.

JP

My apologies Starman. I feel alot better now...just letting off some steam. ALL is well.

[Hornchurch]

Originally Posted by flyXwire

My apologies Starman. I feel alot better now...just letting off some steam. ALL is well.

flyX - you're not alone in your views of this P.C. world gone mad.

I guess there are many others who feel the same way as us - including some/many others on this forum.

Sadly Mo's right about the Dog's name, & 'codeword'.

If my nation are involved/linked in any way, in the making of this film (of course they are !) - then it - ('the' name) ain't happening.... (sadly, like you I'd like historical accuracy too - it's relative to the times).

try this link, to see TWO pictures of 'Digger's' Grave at the old Scampton Air-Base, as it is today.......(from where THE Raid took place) -
(click pix to enlarge)

Also check the article, ("we don't want to offend the Germans" )

(what , like pretend it never happened, you mean ???????).

http://www.tonycunnane.co.uk/dambusters.htm

....click the Mustard coloured tab, marked "Dam Busters 2", on the Top-Left-Hand side of the page, for some extra pix of 747, Base & Lancaster PA474 emulating a 'Dams-Attack'

[flyXwire]

Cool and thanks for the link, Hornchurch....You da man! I have the book "The Making of the Dam Busters" film at hand and it has that very same picture of that grave site.

[MoMo]

Dear FlyXwire,

I'm so glad that you've had this opportunity to vent your spleen on revisionist historians and the like. Remember that not all of them are left-wing, though. There are phalanxes of right wing commentators who
' altered' history to the tune of their paymasters during the Cold War in order to pour buckets of ---t on the perceived enemies of democracy.

Likewise, Nazi-sympethiser creeps like David Irving offended millions of people by denying the Holocaust for years.

It does make my skin crawl every time I see a movie which has retrospectively altered events to fit in with current political sensitivity or, in some cases, the demands of a tight budget.

Let's all be anti-revisionists in a positive way to preserve the history of what took place and enjoy the feeling of kicking poor historians and crap film-makers off the moral high ground and into the long grass!

cheers,

MoMo

[SKUNKY]

Originally Posted by STARMAN 352ND

MoMo and flyXwire let's not get it too heated on this topic.

'If the boys wanna fight ya better let 'em'.......

The Boys Are Back In Town
Thin Lizzy
1976

[jim]

Makes me mad too, The dogs name was Digger. Thats a fact. So if you make the film you call the dog by its correct name. I have spoken about this to some how do I phrase this, Lets say ethnic friends of mine,( to me they are just friends and not ethnic or anything else) and they said why do you ask? Its history! It shows the attitudes of the time and thank God we have moved on. They said that they are very happy with the new openness in society that allows us to talk about prejudice and hatred. They also said that they feel very uncomfortable about all this PC correctness because it make them feel like a special case when really they are just the same as everyone else. I number amongst my friends several Asian guys and two West Indians. We dont ever have a problem speaking on such topics and feel comfortable with it. The British in their time have produced some of the most racist people you could imagine and although it can still be found in some places I like to think that in general people are not that stupid any more. (does any one here deny the Holocaust? I think not).So we should be accurate and tell it like it is and was but at the same time be alert and on guard against using history to promote bigotry prejudice and hatred. My friend Anil says I should put on the forum that he is delighted that you guys feel you can talk freely about such things and it shows why the WW11 was fought, "Freedom of speech and Equality for all" Ps Anils dad fought in Italy.

[Captain Eddie]

Originally Posted by jim

Makes me mad too, The dogs name was Nigger. Thats a fact. So if you make the film you call the dog by its correct name. I have spoken about this to some how do I phrase this, Lets say ethnic friends of mine,( to me they are just friends and not ethnic or anything else) and they said why do you ask? Its history! It shows the attitudes of the time and thank God we have moved on. They said that they are very happy with the new openness in society that allows us to talk about prejudice and hatred. They also said that they feel very uncomfortable about all this PC correctness because it make them feel like a special case when really they are just the same as everyone else. I number amongst my friends several Asian guys and two West Indians. We dont ever have a problem speaking on such topics and feel comfortable with it. The British in their time have produced some of the most racist people you could imagine and although it can still be found in some places I like to think that in general people are not that stupid any more. (does any one here deny the Holocaust? I think not).So we should be accurate and tell it like it is and was but at the same time be alert and on guard against using history to promote bigotry prejudice and hatred. My friend Anil says I should put on the forum that he is delighted that you guys feel you can talk freely about such things and it shows why the WW11 was fought, "Freedom of speech and Equality for all" Ps Anils dad fought in Italy.

Well stated, Jim.

[flyXwire]

Why you....Warmonger!

Originally Posted by SKUNKY

'If the boys wanna fight ya better let 'em'.......

The Boys Are Back In Town
Thin Lizzy
1976

[bsmith13]

Just my $.02.

Let me start by saying that I consider myself an historian. If the dog had a certain name, then that's what the dog's name was. No amount of PC waffling can change that.

There is no doubt that the word is offensive. It has become more offensive since we have become more socially enlightened, but few people ever take the historical etymology of a word into consideration when judging its use.

However, to play the devil's advocate, you have to also consider the position of the production company and studio that make the movie. This movie is meant to be a mass-consumption item. Demographics-wise, there will be fewer viewers that care about historical accuracy than viewers who just want to be entertained for a few hours. (Face it, those of us who care about historical accuracy are a minority).

The word continues to be used in movies today, but it is usually used either by an evil protagonist that we are meant to hate, or by a person of color in the derision of another of their race. It has never been used the way it would be in "Dambusters".

From the interviews I've read with PJ, he is concerned with telling the story of 617 Squadron and Barnes Wallis. Unfortunately, the dog's name is an offensive racial slur. It is probable that inclusion of the dog's real name will raise criticism of the movie that has nothing to do with the story he is trying to tell. Then you have minority groups speaking out against the film, possibly boycotting it, possibly boycotting any film you make in the future. Hollywood pundits will look at your war film that tanked, and ignore the fact that it was well made, well directed and well acted, as well as the fact that the film was badly received because of a single word, and decide that the public just doesn't like war movies. Suddenly, no more war movies will be on the horizon in the near future.

It will be interesting to see what they do.