[Epapazian]

I've tried many ways to entice friends who profess an interest in military history and aircraft in particular into collecting diecast. I often give warbird replicas as presents and invite supposedly interested parties to visit our forum to sample its fare. So far, no luck. A while ago I posted a suggestion that the manufacturers and sellers band together to create (and fund ) an industry association which, aside from much needed internal policing activities, would aggressively promote the hobby . How? By inviting manufacturers to donate surplus product to schools, museums and other venues so that more people would see them; by pressing for more coverage of diecast in magazines like "FineScale Modeler"--with the added inducement of ads, of course; by creating the equivalent of infomercials which would air on the History Channel, The Military Channel and elsewhere, showing how such products are researched and carried to fruition, how collector's select,display and in some cases modify the products to suit their tastes, etc. Am I being hopelessly unrealistic? What do you fellows think?

[bsmith13]

My fondest hope is that both diecast companies and aviation museums would realize that people who visit their museum would like to have a model of an aircraft displayed at their facility, rather than another t-shirt.

[djjeffhall]

Epapazian,
Hey there.

While I certainly have no interest in driving folks away from the hobby, hasn't it grown recently a little out of hand? Many of the thread on the forum mention lack of space and lack of funds, coupled with SO MANY new manufacturers that hardly anyone can keep up.

Yes, I'm mixing number of folks in the hobby with number of models being released, but they seem to go hand in hand. If the manufacturers did not see added growth, they wouldn't get into it.

Also, PLEASE DO NOT take this as a post where the intention is driving folks away or alienating anyone. I'm just not sure I could keep up if it got exponentially bigger.

[Epapazian]

Originally Posted by djjeffhall

Epapazian,
Hey there.

While I certainly have no interest in driving folks away from the hobby, hasn't it grown recently a little out of hand? Many of the thread on the forum mention lack of space and lack of funds, coupled with SO MANY new manufacturers that hardly anyone can keep up.

Yes, I'm mixing number of folks in the hobby with number of models being released, but they seem to go hand in hand. If the manufacturers did not see added growth, they wouldn't get into it.

Also, PLEASE DO NOT take this as a post where the intention is driving folks away or alienating anyone. I'm just not sure I could keep up if it got exponentially bigger.

There is a lot of speculation about the true size of the diecast collector market. About a year ago, I had a conversation with Martin at the Flying Mule on this subject and his estimate of the number of dedicated military diecast collectors was so low ---about a thousand-- that it stunned me. Others figure the market, counting "casual" or highly selective collectors, is considerably larger and I buy this since it is hard to see how so many sellers could stay in business if the total customer base was so small. Still, we are,at best, talking about several thousands, not many tens of thousands of potential buyers for a new diecast warbird---which explains why manufacturers are so reluctant to take chances. As a result, we have P-51s, BF-109s and F4Us coming out one after the other, but no IL-2Ms, nor Tonys, or LA5FNs. Also troubling is the paucity of young people coming into the hobby. Unless this issue is dealt with what are the prospects for future growth? Finally, a cooperative effort---and I know it will be very tough to organize--could provide invaluable policing on issues like putting out schedules of models slated for production, then failing to deliver, or pre-ordering practices by vendors. Ok. Maybe I am asking too much, but it doesn't hurt to look at the big picture once in a while.

[jim]

In the UK a very small but enlightend number of schools organise trips out to museums.

We need to make museums more interactive with the youngsters, its the right way to go both in terms of teaching our history and getting kids involved with the Hobby.

[skydriver]

I think if we really want to grow this hobby, we need to have local die cast collectiable chapters. Now, saying that, I will go one step further and put my actions where my mouth is, and will immediatly post a new posting in this catagory " Atlanta Die Cast Collectible Chapter Forming".

I don't know how many people that are members of this forum actually live in or near Atlanta, and would even want do something like this, but here it goes.

[bsmith13]

Concerning "Growth of the Hobby":

I am one whose choices are limited by funds. Yet I would welcome growth. I am not a completist, so I already pick and choose. However, if more people are buying diecast aircraft, that means (hopefully) that manufacturers would be making more models. More models means more choice for me, without the onus of having to purchase every single piece in order to do my part to keep them in business.

[djjeffhall]

Epapazian,
Hey there.

I've had similiar conversations with Martin, and I certainly respect his opinion and yours.

However, the question that Martin never could answer, and neither can I, is this. If there are so few collectors, where did all the Lancasters go? (Or Donald Duck Spitfires, or pick your rather hard to find bird.)

In the case of Lancasters, they are rare as hens teeth. Corgi has issued 12 liveries, each of which ran 2000 or more. (A few issues ran unlimited (10,000?), two are 5600 and 6000 respectively with the rest around 2000. That equals slightly less than 40000 Lancasters manufactured. According to Martin's numbers that breaks down roughly to 5 each for every "hardcore" collector and 30000 "casual" collectors. Those numbers, while completely speculative would pan out according to the numbers of birds released. (I got those numbers from Tricatus's website. By the way, where has he been lately?)

I can tell you, I don't have any Lancasters and I doubt many folks on this forum that have as many as 5.

What I'm getting at is that I believe there are a lot more collectors than anyone believes. Otherwise, there are TONS of Lancasters and early Corgi Spitfires sitting on shelfs around the UK and states waiting for someone to discover them. Since no one seems to think this is the case, all these planes went somewhere.

I could be completely wrong of course, but otherwise, with the number of diecast being manufactured, there should be "piles" of birds gathering dust waiting for us "fanatics" to discover them.

[jim]

Originally Posted by djjeffhall

Epapazian,
Hey there.

I've had similiar conversations with Martin, and I certainly respect his opinion and yours.

However, the question that Martin never could answer, and neither can I, is this. If there are so few collectors, where did all the Lancasters go? (Or Donald Duck Spitfires, or pick your rather hard to find bird.)

In the case of Lancasters, they are rare as hens teeth. Corgi has issued 12 liveries, each of which ran 2000 or more. (A few issues ran unlimited (10,000?), two are 5600 and 6000 respectively with the rest around 2000. That equals slightly less than 40000 Lancasters manufactured. According to Martin's numbers that breaks down roughly to 5 each for every "hardcore" collector and 30000 "casual" collectors. Those numbers, while completely speculative would pan out according to the numbers of birds released. (I got those numbers from Tricatus's website. By the way, where has he been lately?)

I can tell you, I don't have any Lancasters and I doubt many folks on this forum that have as many as 5.

What I'm getting at is that I believe there are a lot more collectors than anyone believes. Otherwise, there are TONS of Lancasters and early Corgi
Spitfires sitting on shelfs around the UK and states waiting for someone to discover them. Since no one seems to think this is the case, all these planes went somewhere.

I could be completely wrong of course, but otherwise, with the number of diecast being manufactured, there should be "piles" of birds gathering dust waiting for us "fanatics" to discover them.

I can't fault your reasoning, there must be more out there collecting these things than we think.

[djjeffhall]

Jim,
Thanks for understanding my "logic".

Taking my post from above a (half) step further, I don't see all these birds being purchased at museums either. Museums would account for "casual" sales and account for all the sales, if the true market was so small. You see the bird, head out through the gift shop and go, "Oh look, neato!" and out goes another Lancaster. (For example, I've got more than one dinosaur model just by going through the Natural History Museum here in Los Angeles.)

However, another recent thread seems to indicate that museums are a PRIME market that is virtaully untapped by the diecast market. That would indicate to me that folks are walking into shops, or ordering from the internet. (I can't think of any other place to go outside of Tuesday Mornings?)

Also, since I've mentioned Tuesday Mornings, I would think that the way Corgi's FLY out the door their indicates there are a ton of collectors unaccounted for. Otherwise, who is buying up all the Tuesday Morning stock?

There are 7 or 8 TM shops in my immediate area (50 mile radius more or less?) and all the Corgis in all those Tuesday Monrings are gone within a week of the stock dropping. Unless there is one person with a warehouse full of birds and tanks, a lot of different people are buying these planes/tanks. Since we have a fairly wide range of persons, geographically, here on the forum and everyone reports the same things, that would indicate there are many avid collectors gathering up the Corgi's.

Getting those folks on this forum is another matter entirely. I collected for at least a year before I "discovered" the old model hanger forum. I surmise that many folks either don't know about the forum or don't care. That is there choice of course, but would indicate that we are the vocal few, they are the silent majority.