[von hitchofen]

....as twenty down and obscurity

Neel Kearby, John Voll, Gene Valencia, Robert Hanson, Cecil Harris, Walter Beckham, Fred Christensen, Dave Schilling, Gerald Johnson, Joe McConnell, James Jabara and many more could all be on that list

and thats just twenty minutes spent flicking through "Stars and Bars"

but I think Tommy McGuire was a git
I'm glad Bong beat him!

[Hornchurch]

Originally Posted by STARMAN 352ND

Robert johnson is now on the poll list.
JP

Thanks STARMAN (JP).

B.T.W....... It's 28 kills (not 27, as per the poll listing).


Presume he's not such a household name Stateside these days as Yeager/Bud Anderson/Gentile or Preddy ???


Another P.51 ace who's a personal hero of mine is Richard Peterson (15.5 kills - 'Hurry Home Honey')......especially so when he related that during one particular mission - he came across an Me.109, that was shooting at helpless B.17 crewmen (from 1 x downed B.17) in their 'chutes, strafing one crewman after another........

He was so enraged, that he dived down and caught the 109 pilot (still too engrossed in murdering the 17's crewman - that the 109 guy forgot to check his 6 O'clock.......
Peterson, an experienced pilot by now, said that the 109 pilot tried every trick in the book to shake him off, but to no avail .

Then - when HE bailed, ('Pete' said to the T.V. crew - and I quote) " I was so darn mad with this 109 pilot, I virtually emptied my guns on him" .

He must have hit the ground resembling minced beef !

[mustangdriver]

I saw that as well. I have a great signed 8x10 from him. In the photo he is sitting on the wingroot of Hurry Home honey (you can see thee nose art) with his ground crew.

[Old Crow]

Hmmm...., who should I pick? Let's see... how about Boyington? Good, but what about..... Gabreski,...Bong...all good.... Preddy's cool but I'm just not sure....Oh wait,

BUD ANDERSON

Honorable mention, for me, would have to be a guy not on the list, Butch O'Hare, namesake of Chicago's airport. Got to have Medal of Honor winners on the list. O'Hare's story is a really interesting tale of a true hero, and his father had a fascinating life too, first working with and then helping to convict Al Capone before being killed by a shotgun blast from a speeding car.

[mustangdriver]

That is pretty wild stuff. I was surprised to learn of all of that history in his family. At least the Mayor of Chicago left that airport alone, without carving up it's runways.

[STARMAN 352ND]

Originally Posted by Hornchurch

Thanks STARMAN (JP).
B.T.W....... It's 28 kills (not 27, as per the poll listing).
!

Horn,
I got the info from this web site.
http://www.acepilots.com/usaaf_eto_aces.html

I was thinking the same thing as you 28 but the site said 27.
JP

[Hornchurch]

Originally Posted by STARMAN 352ND

Horn,
I got the info from this web site.
http://www.acepilots.com/usaaf_eto_aces.html

I was thinking the same thing as you 28 but the site said 27.
JP

Starman, Apologies from me may well be in order yet !

Strange thing is different sources are quoting either one of the two figures

Since I originally got my figure from the link/site/page, that I included in my first post in this thread.........& then you'd mentioned the above, I tried a couple of others, (some 27, some 28).

Funny thing is, the most authorative quote I can lay my hands on, comes from the doyen of all authors, on the subject of the 8th Air Force, from the Historian adopted by the 'Vets' themselves.

Quoting from his most famous reference book "The Mighty Eighth" by Roger A Freeman (He coined the phrase - in the same way Alan Freed is accredited the term 'Rock 'n Roll !)........Page 273........

"original score 27.revised score 28. No ground strafing victories".

Guess you're right to keep it on the lower score (not that it makes a world of difference ?).

Interesting to note that Johnson's are ALL air to air kills (unlike some others) & apparently all fighters - all the more impressive !

[STARMAN 352ND]

Well at this time it seems Pappy has a lead by 1 vote over the other.
and i'm surprised that Gentile & Carson & Fose has no votes
JP

[mustangdriver]

I am a huge fan of bith of them. I would have voted for Gentile second. I heard a rumor around th emuseum, that they are goin gto raise the remains of Gentile's P-51 Shangra La. After the crash landing, It was pushed into a lake. It was not a total wreck. Should be interesting.

[Martin Baker]

What about this guy & his book a great read to James Goodson ?
Chasing the Bf-109 over Neu Brandenburg airfield, Major Goodson caught up and fired a short burst. The German went straight down and exploded on the deck. Almost immediately, he saw another coming in to land, and raked the length of it with machine gun fire. The second plane went into a ground loop and started burning. Then he spotted a stubby plane partly hidden in a revetment; it had to be an Me-163, a prototype of the revolutionary rocket fighter that the Germans had under development in July, 1944. Goodson had to go for it. He circled back over the airfield, the flak started up, and "Wham!" his plane shuddered and his right knee went numb. Both he and his plane had been hit .

The Mustang started to stall, and he nursed the plane down, bumping to a rough landing. He climbed out, and signaled his squadron flying overhead to shoot up and destroy his downed plane. He moved into the nearby fir and birch forest and they did so. He treated his wounded leg as well as he could with his emergency first aid kit, then pulled out his map. He was in northeastern Germany, about 70 miles from the Baltic. While it was a long shot, his only option was to make for the port of Rostock, and from there try to get to Sweden by boat. But he could hardly walk; his right leg kept collapsing under him. He forced himself to keep moving, soon coming to a road and a wheat field, which seemed to be a good hiding place if needed. Getting hungry, he headed for the nearest farm. All the out-buildings were locked and he settled for a few rotten potatoes from the pig sty and some fresh water from a trough. Out on the road, he easily hid whenever a bicyclist or a motor vehicle came along. Once a searchlight-equipped car scanned the fields, evidently looking for him, but he avoided the beams. He stumbled on, stopping at a deserted stream to wash up and shave, razor and soap thoughtfully provided in his pilot's escape kit. But hunger continued to weaken him; he even pounced on a field mouse, but couldn't bring himself to eat the tiny creature.
Once a horse-drawn carriage filled with Wehrmacht officers rolled by, and Goodson started thinking about the wartime Germany, how little it had changed, and the first time he saw the black crosses on a Bf-109. That was in 1940-41, when he was flying with the RAF.
Born in America of British parents, but growing up in Toronto, young James Goodson wanted to see some of the world, and worked his way to England as a pantry boy in a Cunard liner. When the war started, he wanted to return to Canada, and booked passage on the SS Athenia on September 3, 1939. A German u-boat torpedoed the great liner that night; Goodson struggled into a life boat and was rescued by a Norwegian ship. Back in England, his anger stirred him to enlist in the RAF, thinking to be a fighter pilot. With the usual amount of red tape, his application was accepted and he was promptly sent to Canada, where the RAF aviation cadets were training. This time, his ship, The Duchess of Athol, crossed the Atlantic without incident. In Toronto's National Exhibition Halls, where the cadets were being processed, he first met Mike Sobanksi, the tall Pole, who had fought with the Polish Army, been injured, and then escaped to America.
After his training in Canada, Goodson once again crossed the Atlantic in another crowded liner. In England, he fretted away more time in advanced training in Cumberland, then flying Hurricanes on uneventful operations in the North. He lobbied for transfer to 11 Group, which was heavily engaged in the aerial battles to the South. He flew cover for the disastrous Dieppe raid in August, 1942, and the following month was posted to the 133rd Squadron, an RAF 'Eagle' squadron - RAF units made up of American pilots. At Debden, he found out that most of the squadron's pilots had been lost on a recent mission to Brest. Don Gentile had not been on that mission, nor had Don Blakeslee, soon promoted to Squadron CO. Blakeslee quickly re-built the squadron, in his own swaggering image.
Soon the three Eagle Squadrons were transferred to the U.S. Eighth Air Force, becoming the 4th Fighter Group (the 133 Sqn redesignated as the 336FS). Without American planes to fly,they continued to fly Spitfires, painting over the RAF roundels with USAAF stars. Goodson and Dixie Alexander had two of the first Spifires to be repainted, and Goodson sold Blakeslee on the idea of launching the first U.S. fighter mission of the ETO. Blakeslee agreed, and the two pilots flew over the Channel on a low-level strafing mission, a type of mission code-named a 'Rhubarb'. Basically, the two planes zipped across the Channel, shot up a couple bicyclists and trains, and returned before they could get in trouble. The PR boys got a hold of the news and soon an article in Stars and Stripes blared out "At dawn today, fighter planes of the U.S. Eighth Army Air Force carried out daring low-level attacks on rail, road and water transport in Northen France and Belgium ..." Blakeslee was furious and charged into their barracks, and bellowed at Goodson, "All right! Where's the other half of the Eighth Air Force?" He calmed down, but made the two pilots foot the squadron's sizable bar bill that night.
The Fourth shortly transitioned to the American-made P-47 Thunderbolt, a plane about as different from their beloved Spitfires as possible. The Spitfires were delightful (and deadly) but had no range. They had been perfect for the Battle of Britain, but escorting bombers over Germany called for a long-range fighter. Already (About this time, Blakeslee was promoted to command the entire Fourth Fighter Group and uttered his caustic judgement on the P-47: "It damn well ought to dive; it sure as Hell can't climb.")
On August 16, 1943, Goodson rescued Blakeslee from three FW-190s, in a thrilling dogfight over Paris' Le Bourget airfield. The mission promised to be a milk run, suitable for breaking in a new wingman, Roy Wehrman. But they got involved in a tough dogfight, Blakeslee baring escaping in an oil-covered Thunderbolt. He couldn't see a thing, and Goodson had to talk him down, all the way to a landing at the Manston emergency strip. Wehrman was shaken and sweating profusely; but he was okay and asked Goody to let him know the next time they were planning a milk run.
The Fourth switched over to Mustangs in early '44, and helped escort the bombers on the Berlin raid of March 6,1944. Goodson led a squadron on this mission; they caught up to the Flying Fortresses outside of Madgeburg, just as hordes of German fighters closed in. He dove after a gaggle of Bf-109s, which were focused on the bombers, picked out one target and flamed it. He pulled around to get into the battle, found three of his planes still with him, and almost immediately damaged another 109, forcing it to break off its attack on a Mustang. Again he led his flight back into the actioon, this time getting behind a lone B-17, always easy prey for the Germans. Goodson got into a turning contest with a 190 (which he thought the Mustang should win), but the 190 crept up on him in the turn. In desperation, he dropped a flap, pulling out of the line of fire. The German dove away for the deck, Goody pursued and eventually caught up, but ran out of ammo after a couple short bursts. He broke off and headed for home. Some time later, he received a Distinguished Service Cross citation for the mission.
More on Goodson to follow - his later experiences with 4th Fighter Group, and in Germany after being shot down.