[admin]

Originally Posted by johnnyboy

You are not the only one that is confused the Invasion stripes as shown on this model 324283 are the later version with the top bands removed as with Gemini's Bald Eagle, which was how most A/C were marked some time after D Day, but Bill Overstreet was flying 2103309 his second Berlin Express on and before D Day???? Attachment 1878

Is this one going to be the OD or half silver paint scheme?
Heres an illustration of the half silver aircraft photographed above.

[timbo]

Originally Posted by hworth18

My only real question is whether the Malcolm hood is accurate since the later pics of Overstreets B/C had a regular birdcage??

I may be wrong, but looking at this pic it does seem to indicate a Malcom hood. Looking at the silver one with the Birdcage, that seems to open by lifting it up, but I would assume that the Malcom opens by sliding back This pic obviously has a canopy that slides back.

The question I have is when he flew each of his planes. I thought the one that Gemini modeled was his first, then It should not have invasion stripes at all as the silver one has full D-Day stripes. But then the photo above clearly shows a plane in the background with post d-day cut down stripes.

Am I missing something? I wonder if there were 2 berlin expresses in existance at the same time??

[hworth18]

Originally Posted by timbo

I may be wrong, but looking at this pic it does seem to indicate a Malcom hood. Looking at the silver one with the Birdcage, that seems to open by lifting it up, but I would assume that the Malcom opens by sliding back This pic obviously has a canopy that slides back.

You are correct.. This pic does indicate a Malcolm hood since there is no dropped part on the open canopy.. And as far as the invasion stripes are concerned, many planes already had the stripes prior to D-day, but when D-day approached, they (full stripes) became mandatory for everyone.. This would also explain why the early plane only had partial stripes, when the later plane had a full set..

[easy8]

So Hworth, if you were goning to do a mod on the antenna issue on BE, how would you approach it? You mentioned "trimming it", got any tips or ideas on how to make this look good? And, do you think doing a whip antenna would work? I know you mentioned at this scale you probably wouldn't see it, but if you get really close it might be a cool thing to add. Just a thought. Any ideas would be appreciated!

easy8

[panzercommander]

Sorry for the sidebar, but this thread is really revealing my ignorance concerning the operational history of P-51s. I had been under the impression that by the time of the D-Day build-up (Big Week, Attacks on rolling stock, etc) the D model bubble canopy Mustang was in wide spread service in the ETO. Is that not accurate? I guess I always thought that by D-Day most, if not all, P-51 B/Cs were out of frontline service.

[hworth18]

Originally Posted by easy8

So Hworth, if you were goning to do a mod on the antenna issue on BE, how would you approach it? You mentioned "trimming it", got any tips or ideas on how to make this look good? And, do you think doing a whip antenna would work? I know you mentioned at this scale you probably wouldn't see it, but if you get really close it might be a cool thing to add. Just a thought. Any ideas would be appreciated!

easy8

Easy,
If I were going to trim the antenna, I would take a sharp exacto knife with a new blade and trim it off as close as I could without getting into the paint on the fuselage.. Then put a dab of Olive drab paint on the spot I just cut off..
A "whip" antenna at 1/72 scale would probably be as thick as a human hair.. I know that when I do the Eagles customs, the "whip" antenna is a small gauge piece of steel rod which is a little bigger than a piece of wire..

[johnnyboy]

Originally Posted by hworth18

You are correct.. This pic does indicate a Malcolm hood since there is no dropped part on the open canopy.. And as far as the invasion stripes are concerned, many planes already had the stripes prior to D-day, but when D-day approached, they (full stripes) became mandatory for everyone.. This would also explain why the early plane only had partial stripes, when the later plane had a full set..

However, during the planning of the Normandy landings, allied commanders feared the possibility of tremendous aircraft losses due to friendly fire. Something had to be done to avoid confusion. Therefore, it was decided to mark every aircraft operating over the beaches with distinctive black and white stripes around the wings and the fuselages.
Specific markings were designed for each type of aircraft and, as it is always the case, many variants appeared. These variants differed in size, position and neatness of application. In all fairness to the ground crews, we must realize that these stripes were painted in a time span of 12 to 36 hours prior to the early hours of the invasion. Some were neatly applied, while others looked like they were painted after a few good English beers in the local pub with mops and rollers!
Full invasion markings lasted very little (approximately 3-4 weeks). Then, sections were taken out with the excuse that the markings made the aircraft very conspicuous when viewed from above. The first areas to be re-camouflaged were the upper surfaces, with bands sometimes being removed, sometimes just painted over. In the last case, occasionally there was a colour difference on the areas covering the white or black. At times, the national insignia was edged with natural metal outline (mostly on the fuselage area)." This was taken from an Aero Master decal fact sheet. but as I understand it most Fighter Groups of the 8th AF were only told to paint these stripes on less than 6 Hours before midnight on June 5th 44, 9th AF groups had some what more warning

[easy8]

Thanks for the reply Harry! I think I'll forget the whip antenna mod, I'd rather not try to glue hair to my BE!


easy8

[butcherbird]

Originally Posted by panzercommander

Sorry for the sidebar, but this thread is really revealing my ignorance concerning the operational history of P-51s. I had been under the impression that by the time of the D-Day build-up (Big Week, Attacks on rolling stock, etc) the D model bubble canopy Mustang was in wide spread service in the ETO. Is that not accurate? I guess I always thought that by D-Day most, if not all, P-51 B/Cs were out of frontline service.

Bud Anderson was still flying his Malcolm Hooded P-51B s/n 43-24823 as late as August 1944. It was then transfered to Bill Overstreet who was flying a birdcage P-51B s/n 42-103309 up till then. I got this info from the book "To War with the Yoxford Boys". There are several photo's in the book showing 43-24823 as Old Crow and Berlin Express with a Malcolm hood.

The photo's also show that by the time Overstreet inherited it, the invasion stripes were removed from the top.

[hworth18]

Originally Posted by butcherbird

Bud Anderson was still flying his Malcolm Hooded P-51B s/n 43-24823 as late as August 1944. It was then transfered to Bill Overstreet who was flying a birdcage P-51B s/n 42-103309 up till then. I got this info from the book "To War with the Yoxford Boys". There are several photo's in the book showing 43-24823 as Old Crow and Berlin Express with a Malcolm hood.

Here is the "missing factor" in this whole deal!!! Thanks for pointing this out Butcherbird, as I didn't realize that Old Crow and Berlin express had the same S/N..