[FormerViperDriver]

Originally Posted by Armour Addict

Well, after the recent FM takeover the prices were adapted in order to relaunch FM as the premier diecast manufacturer.

Hi Armour Addict! Wie geht's?

Anyway, this is just too funny: establishing yourself as the premier diecast manufacturer by increasing prices versus making a better product is just assinine. But hey, they tried this right after FM took over CDC a few years ago, and it didn't work then. Why they imagine it will work now with the vastly increased competition is beyond me.

In economics, there is such a concept as a "luxury good" in the sense that demand increases for it if the price increases (the reverse of a normal supply/demand curve). That applies (perhaps) to Cartier diamonds, and maybe Ferraris and Rolls Royces (doubtful even there, given the competition from Porsche, Mercedes, Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini, etc...). But to put FM in that category is just ludicrous.

Prices will come back down, as they did the first time. It may not even take very long.

FVD

[Elmer]

Originally Posted by FormerViperDriver

this is just too funny: establishing yourself as the premier diecast manufacturer by increasing prices versus making a better product is just assinine.

Couldn't have been stated better.

[Cardinal]

Premium prices require a high quality premium product - regrettably this is only the case with a few selected models from FM ... prices will definitely have to drop as they'll be unable to compete with the likes of Carousel, EI & HM at the current rates.

[CLLCTR5]

Wow...tough crowd here.

As both a collector and a dealer...I do not share the same POV.

Remember the FM sold recently to Morgan Mint. Morgan Mint looked over Armour and decided that the single engine and small jets were priced too high and decided to lower prices on those by over 17%. If someone can name a diecast company that recently lowered prices by 15% or more I'd like to know whom.

I'm not sure how anyone gets 40% increase on the larger ones but an increase of $40 on a $135 model is barely 30%. And in my educated opinion knowing what it costs to tool, build, and distribute models like the B-17...that is pretty close to what the B-17's should have been priced all along. I'm sure someone here can point me to a 1/48 scale B-17 in diecast out there that is priced more fairly than $175...but I can honestly say I have never seen one.

As for the fair market pricing...if TFM wants dealers to be able to inventory items in a display setting such as in my store (which many many collectors really appreciate) then they have to insure that warehouse dealers do not cut the MSRP and even moreso intentionally overstock and justify it by knowing they can always sell it all at 50% off later. It harms the collectability, and it harms the retailer a great deal.

Some collectors like EI and Carousel...I get that...but a LOT of collectors do not use stands and display bases would rather pay $10-$20 less anyway.

As for the inconsistant quality...if you know anything about the creative process of taking investment dollars and creating a prototype and than turning it into a tooling...then you know that we are all about a year away from seeing what TFM ...the NEW TFM (remember all new owners) will have to offer.

So I would be delighted if anyone of you recognize any of these facts because its going to happen whether the cynics have their say or not. It's going to be a lot of fun around here once 2008 rolls around let me tell you.

P.S. If TFM's prices are not fair...what exactly are Corgi's?

Best Regards,

Randy

[Captain Eddie]

Randy, when you refer to TFM, are you referring to Franklin Mint? Because around here, since the ORIGINAL model hanger was sponsored by The Flying Mule, TFM, to us, is short for The Flying Mule.

[CLLCTR5]

Originally Posted by Captain Eddie

Randy, when you refer to TFM, are you referring to Franklin Mint? Because around here, since the ORIGINAL model hanger was sponsored by The Flying Mule, TFM, to us, is short for The Flying Mule.

Yes yes absolutely. Everywhere outside of this messageboard TFM is always acornymed TFM for The Franklin Mint. It's even been a bit of a running joke kind of like it is in college football...you know...THE Ohio State University...etc. There are quite a few people that shorten it even further to FM...but invariably there is a lot of confusion if the person is referring to Franklin Mint or Frequency Modulation.

[STARMAN 352ND]

Well i can see your point to a certain degree...But i tell you what ..
It's the collectors that keep these companies going ...without the collectors the companies will have no money.
What happeneds when there is no money they start cutting back on products and employee's and before you know it they lower their prices
again to just stay afloat.....Right now as a collector i have cut back alot more then i have in the past due to the high cost of these planes and i know
others have followed that same route.
JP

[CLLCTR5]

Remember Remember Remember...I am a collector foremost and a dealer second. The only reason why I am a dealer is because I am such an avid collector. And I am telling you there is absolutely NO CHANCE that companies like the franklin mint and corgi and many many more will survive if we the collectors do not start to understand what goes on behind the scenes of getting these projects done. The collectors drive the industry...and that includes their realistic understranding of everything...the worlds economy...raw material prices...distribution costs...retail inventory influences, etc. We all need to work hand in hand on this for it to work. There is nothing wrong with being cynical...as long as you are educated about the situation as much as possible. Many very innocently, are not even started down that path. I'm only one guy...but I hope to change that slightly.

And yes...we understand if you cannot afford the B-17's new price...we will just very respectfully make a few less.

Best Regards,

randy

[Armour Addict]

Originally Posted by FormerViperDriver

Hi Armour Addict! Wie geht's?

Anyway, this is just too funny: establishing yourself as the premier diecast manufacturer by increasing prices versus making a better product is just assinine. But hey, they tried this right after FM took over CDC a few years ago, and it didn't work then. Why they imagine it will work now with the vastly increased competition is beyond me.

In economics, there is such a concept as a "luxury good" in the sense that demand increases for it if the price increases (the reverse of a normal supply/demand curve). That applies (perhaps) to Cartier diamonds, and maybe Ferraris and Rolls Royces (doubtful even there, given the competition from Porsche, Mercedes, Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini, etc...). But to put FM in that category is just ludicrous.

Prices will come back down, as they did the first time. It may not even take very long.

FVD

Hi FVD! Gut geht's, danke! Dir auch? Das schöne Wetter genossen? :-D

Well spoken. And I'll have to agree a 100% that prices will come down sooner or later.

FM sees itself in the "luxury good" department. As insane that may sound. But as you statet competition is quite diverse.

I can not imagine any "normal" collector (apart from us die-hard die-cast collectors) paying that much money for a modell anyways.

Here in Germany some retailers charge up to 169€ ~ $230 for a B-17. That is WAY too much for my comfort. Especially if you know what the retailer pays at the distributor.

AA

[FormerViperDriver]

Originally Posted by CLLCTR5

Wow...tough crowd here.

So I would be delighted if anyone of you recognize any of these facts because its going to happen whether the cynics have their say or not. It's going to be a lot of fun around here once 2008 rolls around let me tell you.

P.S. If TFM's prices are not fair...what exactly are Corgi's?

Best Regards,

Randy

Your points are interesting but also they are not really relevant. The bottom line is that I only have so much money to spend on diecast (like most collectors, I assume). I used to spend a lot of it on CDC/FM.Armour models. Now I have other choices, while simultaneously that company not only increases their prices (a lot, let's no quibble if it's 30 or 40%) but also brings out inferior products (Mirage III downright ugly, F-22 only so-so, and the F-4F Wildcat doesn't look too great in pre-pro pictures - and anyway I already have the Carousel One version). So this has to be a bad joke. I have a lot of CDC/FM models in my collection from past years, but I'm not buying any more, and that's that. Thankfully I got my B-17 and B-24 when prices were better.

Now, if in 2008 FM (or TFM, whatever) increases their quality and comes out with interesting new moulds, maybe I'll re-assess. But I'm betting the laws of economics will rule in the end anyway (kind of like gravity...) and prices will be forced down. Although I still wouldn't buy their Mirage III at any price. Heck, wouldn't take it even if you paid me!

To me, Franklin Mint seem to have the same attitude that brought down the Big Three in the automobile business: let's not worry about quality and value, these idiot customers will buy anything we dish at them anyway. See where that got them?

Mark my words...

FVD