[stalag8611]

This must be FM/CDC week. First the A-10, and now the the F-4. I'm going to wear my legs out running to the basement to check out what's hiding there. Turns out I have two F-4s: the Wild Weasel and the "Thunderbirds". Like the A-10 mentioned in a different post, the F-4s are in boxes in the basement because they are big and take up a lot of space. However, based on the chatter on the subject I may go down and dust 'em off. They are really nice issues, especially the Weasel. As an aside, the F-4 "Thunderebird" was given to me by a dealer who was going out of business. A very nice gift, indeed.

[markko]

Originally Posted by Armour Addict

It ain't mine. At least not yet

And true, the B11476 is similar, except the droptanks and shark-teeth.

And I also got it, along another six Phantoms

Cheers

Just some info for those interested in E315 (the previously pictured Molders Sq. F4F). I tried to purchase this item from several of my normal suppliers, but they all got the same story from FM--the model was commissioned by Lemke ( the German FM distributor ) and all examples went to them. I did eventually order the model from aviation-centre berlin. This was my first experience with them, and I must tell you that 13 days after I submitted my online order off of their website the model was sitting on my front doorstep in south Texas, which I consider pretty darned good service; especially to a first time off of continent customer. The model itself is a really nice example--lots of nice insignia detail; and the special markings on the model seem to jive with the photos of the actual plane that I have in my AirDoc publications Luftwaffe Phantoms series books. The incorrect "cigarillo" wing tanks really don't seem to hurt the model too much, mostly I guess due to the really nice camo paintwork on the model. Well, as far as I know, that brings me up to date on having a complete collection of Armour 1/48 Phantoms (this my 23rd F4). -------Happy collecting, markko

[Armour Addict]

Originally Posted by markko

Just some info for those interested in E315 (the previously pictured Molders Sq. F4F). I tried to purchase this item from several of my normal suppliers, but they all got the same story from FM--the model was commissioned by Lemke ( the German FM distributor ) and all examples went to them. I did eventually order the model from aviation-centre berlin. This was my first experience with them, and I must tell you that 13 days after I submitted my online order off of their website the model was sitting on my front doorstep in south Texas, which I consider pretty darned good service; especially to a first time off of continent customer. The model itself is a really nice example--lots of nice insignia detail; and the special markings on the model seem to jive with the photos of the actual plane that I have in my AirDoc publications Luftwaffe Phantoms series books. The incorrect "cigarillo" wing tanks really don't seem to hurt the model too much, mostly I guess due to the really nice camo paintwork on the model. Well, as far as I know, that brings me up to date on having a complete collection of Armour 1/48 Phantoms (this my 23rd F4). -------Happy collecting, markko

True, Lemke released quite a few limited versions in 2006. And they have become pretty rare in local stores because of the 400 pieces limitation.

Nearly 2 weeks from Germany is really fast! I had some bad experiences the other way round. With models I bought in the CONUS. Sometimes they took ages to come across! Even with USPS Air

Well, yesterday I ordered a couple of limited ones from a dealer I know. 2x E315, 1x E316 and one E317.

So if anyone wants that Phantom send me an PM.

Wow, Markko. Thats a lot of Phantoms! I had more but only kept some rare / limited ones...

Do you also have the F-4J JSDF?

[markko]

Originally Posted by Armour Addict

True, Lemke released quite a few limited versions in 2006. And they have become pretty rare in local stores because of the 400 pieces limitation.

Nearly 2 weeks from Germany is really fast! I had some bad experiences the other way round. With models I bought in the CONUS. Sometimes they took ages to come across! Even with USPS Air

Well, yesterday I ordered a couple of limited ones from a dealer I know. 2x E315, 1x E316 and one E317.

So if anyone wants that Phantom send me an PM.

Wow, Markko. Thats a lot of Phantoms! I had more but only kept some rare / limited ones...

Do you also have the F-4J JSDF?

Yes, I do have D750 JASDF 302nd Hikkotai F4EJ, although it is still in the box, undisplayed as yet. This model commands such a premium price over here that I'm wondering if maybe I should refrain from unpacking this one, but display it in the carton instead. I've wondered for sometime now, if CDC/FM produced some other limited edition Phantoms solely for the Japanese market. Would you happen to know if the same holds true as far as limited special Luftwaffe Phantoms(not listed in any Armour catalogues) that have been produced specially for German distributors, dealers, or Luftwaffe units since Armour Collection has existed. I heard a rumor a couple of years ago that a special white Phantom was produced for a Luftwaffe squadron, but I have yet to see proof of that (I check German ebay regularly). I think maybe the rumored model was actually D751 F104 Starfighter in white/multi-blue Fly-out colors. ----Happy collecting, markko

[Armour Addict]

Originally Posted by markko

Yes, I do have D750 JASDF 302nd Hikkotai F4EJ, although it is still in the box, undisplayed as yet. This model commands such a premium price over here that I'm wondering if maybe I should refrain from unpacking this one, but display it in the carton instead. I've wondered for sometime now, if CDC/FM produced some other limited edition Phantoms solely for the Japanese market. Would you happen to know if the same holds true as far as limited special Luftwaffe Phantoms(not listed in any Armour catalogues) that have been produced specially for German distributors, dealers, or Luftwaffe units since Armour Collection has existed. I heard a rumor a couple of years ago that a special white Phantom was produced for a Luftwaffe squadron, but I have yet to see proof of that (I check German ebay regularly). I think maybe the rumored model was actually D751 F104 Starfighter in white/multi-blue Fly-out colors. ----Happy collecting, markko

Thats cool! I still want that bird along with the JSDF F-15J And right, the price kept me from buying so far. And shipping from Japan to Germany...
Yes, I have been asking myself the same thing about limited versions in the States such as the B11D745 McDonnell Douglas F-15C Eagle. USAF Oregon Air National Guard "Redhawks". Never heard of that bird either until I found it on ebay. An now I want to have it!

Regarding the Luftwaffe Phantoms, I never heard of that "special white Phantom". But I will keep an eye open and ask my local dealers about it. Possibly that D751 F104 Starfighter could have been mistaken for the Phantom. But ist outright ugly! The Luftwaffe Phantoms I know of are:
B11B476
B11B555
B11E315

And I am pretty active on ebay, lately mostly selling Armour.

Comparing my Armour list with your Phantom collection I can say yours is complete! Congrats!

I think we should swap some intel.

Cheers,
AA

[STARMAN 352ND]

I want to get my hands on that B11E315 F4 Phantom.
I have seen them on Ebay Germany and i have no idea what the us dollar
would be for one of these.
Shipping alone cost alot too.
JP

[markko]

Originally Posted by STARMAN 352ND

I want to get my hands on that B11E315 F4 Phantom.
I have seen them on Ebay Germany and i have no idea what the us dollar
would be for one of these.
Shipping alone cost alot too.
JP

As stated before, I ordered my E315 off of Aviation Centre Berlin website, which I peruse occasionally to see if any new AC German market only products have appeared. The website is available in German or English, and is easy to navigate. I check frequently on German ebay for new products also, but most German ebay sellers don't accept US credit cards and I do not have a Pay Pal account. Ordering off of the ACB website was simple and they accept US credit cards. If you live off continent (out of the EU ?) their computer program automatically deducts the VAT. That price and the shipping price to your location are broken down and displayed before you authorize your order. The cost to me with delivery to south Texas was a total of $143.08 and I had the model in my posession 13 days after I placed the order. You may want to check with Armour Addict to see if he can get you one at a comparable (or less) price--but I cannot fault ACB's service or their pricing, and am satisfied that I have a reputable outfit to order Armour German market items (not available from US dealers) from. Hope this helps---and by the way, E315 is a very nice (if unspectacular) model. ------Happy collecting, markko

[John Youngs]

Gentlemen: I certainly understand the frustration with the external ("drop") fuel tank size issue on the earlier F-4 Phantoms. Strictly-speaking, Armour screwed up - these tanks were originally supposed to represent the center-line belly tank of 600 gallons capacity. Many times F-4's would fly with this tank but not the 275-gallon underwing tanks - those stores positions were often left available for bombs & other various ordinance packages. Hence, the screw up. Those huge underwing tanks that Armour/FM installed on most of the older Vietnam-era F-4's were originally intended to be mounted under the belly centerline. But for some reason, Armour/FM, in it's usual "zest" to save a few bucks, decided to use up it's supply of "belly" tanks as opposed to spending a few more $$$ to develop properly-sized underwing tanks that would've been more visually appealing & historically correct. Ironically enough, the USAF did, at one time, experiment with installing huge underwing tanks for the F-4 in an effort to extend it's range for certain types of missions. However, they found that the tremendous drag of those tanks tended to offset any meaningful range increase, so the experiment never went anywhere as far as being an implemented thing. Newer Armour (I've heard that FM is no longer connected with Armour - is this correct, and if so, who's the new owner?) F-4's have the correct tanks, although the nose ogive (profile) of these tanks is not correct, either. Still, it's a step in the right direction... - John

[FormerViperDriver]

Originally Posted by John Youngs

. Many times F-4's would fly with this tank but not the 275-gallon underwing tanks

Minor point, John, but the F-4 wing tanks are 370 Gals (US). That's the same quantity as in the F-16 wing tanks (although they are quite different in shape). The F-4 centerline is indeed 600 Gals (US), although there is an early model (that's what FM uses) and a later model taken from the F-15 that has a somewhat different shape (and is less draggy and allows more Gs to be pulled with the tank installed).

It's still unbelievable to me that FM/Armour couldn't get the wing tanks right even the second time. I mean how hard can it be? All my FM/Armour F-4s (well, I only have 4 of them) are tankless...

I won't even say a thing about the tanks on some of their A-10s (break them off!).

FVD

[John Youngs]

Originally Posted by PappyB

That is my favorite FM phantom by far -- congrats on the find!

I just wish they got the tanks on the wings right, but it's still a great model -- the CDC version didn't have the tanks, but it had a good amount of sticker decals. I've got both and am planning to do a comparision for the site one of these days. I recently picked up this same model a huge discount, too.

One site's got it listed for $160!

Pappy - I've got both & as far as I'm concerned, there's absolutely NO comparison at all - the newer or later version (the one you're referring to) is FAR better then the original CDC version. As for the tanks - yes, they're the "wrong size" (they're supposed to be modelled after the original 600-gallon centerline tank); but compared to the usual Armour/FM screwups in the "historical accuracy" dept; this is a rather small thing. On any other plane, they'd look even worse; having said that, the reason I don't object - too much - to the size of these tanks is (1) the nose shape of these tanks is actually closer to the real wing tanks then the "smaller", newer ones are; and (2) given the legendary weight-carrying or load-carrying ability of the F-4, they really don't look TOO out of place. In other words, if you were to put a pair of 600-gallon tanks under the wings of a real F-4; given a suitable runway, the plane would accomodate them just fine! So yes, it'd be nice if Armour would REALLY rectify these things; given the fact that they don't seem to be TOO concerned about REAL historical accuracy, I can live with them the way they are. If they could increase the number of available markings and do a bit better job of sealing gaps & seams, etc; I'd be a real happy camper...!! - JY