[SKUNKY]

Originally Posted by flyXwire

I'm quite happy with the Gaincorp F-22 at the moment.

The peein' puppy???

[flyXwire]

Originally Posted by SKUNKY

The peein' puppy???

Yeah, the puking dog!!!

[TopHat]

Originally Posted by PappyB

IMHO there would be no Carousel 1 or OMI or HM in 1:48 to drool over if FM did not pave the way.

What is OMI?

[PappyB]

Originally Posted by TopHat

What is OMI?

Sorry, I should have said Eagles International -- which is a line of 1:48 aircraft distributed by Onmark Int. So far just a line of P-51Bs, which rock -- and a Texan due out very soon..

More on the way.

[Elmer]

Originally Posted by PappyB

Come now, let's be nice...

I just couldn't help myself Pappy! If I offended any fans of FM, please accept my humble apology, I did not mean to offend, only to spark a healthy debate.

You are right Pappy. Armour / FM has done a lot for diecast collection. When I first looked into 1:48 diecast (about 5 years ago) this line was the only one I knew of. I considered, then passed because the models simply lacked the outstanding detail of the likes of Tamiya and Hasegawa (I know, plastic, but hey, I go way back with plastic kits!). Now, however, there is simply no excuse for FM not to raise their standard.

My issue with the company is they produce many iconic aircraft models (e.g. P-51D), that are sub-standard. And what is the big deal with this? No other manufacturer will touch subjects that FM has done. I believe it is a travesty that subjects such as the P-51D, early model Spits, or Hurricanes (aircraft that saved the western world), are only available in poor quality offerings (I am talking 1:48 here). This hurts the hobby, not helps it. That is why I believe it is important for FM to either 1) substantially raise the standard of their product, or 2) quit.

Nevertheless, if consumers keep buying their inferior products, there will be no incentive for them to change. I want change with FM; all I can do to facilitate that is to 1) refuse to buy their product, and 2) attempt to persuade my peers to do the same.

[PappyB]

Originally Posted by Elmer

I just couldn't help myself Pappy! If I offended any fans of FM, please accept my humble apology, I did not mean to offend, only to spark a healthy debate.

You are right Pappy. Armour / FM has done a lot for diecast collection. When I first looked into 1:48 diecast (about 5 years ago) this line was the only one I knew of. I considered, then passed because the models simply lacked the outstanding detail of the likes of Tamiya and Hasegawa (I know, plastic, but hey, I go way back with plastic kits!). Now, however, there is simply no excuse for FM not to raise their standard.

My issue with the company is they produce many iconic aircraft models (e.g. P-51D), that are sub-standard. And what is the big deal with this? No other manufacturer will touch subjects that FM has done. I believe it is a travesty that subjects such as the P-51D, early model Spits, or Hurricanes (aircraft that saved the western world), are only available in poor quality offerings (I am talking 1:48 here). This hurts the hobby, not helps it. That is why I believe it is important for FM to either 1) substantially raise the standard of their product, or 2) quit.

Nevertheless, if consumers keep buying their inferior products, there will be no incentive for them to change. I want change with FM; all I can do to facilitate that is to 1) refuse to buy their product, and 2) attempt to persuade my peers to do the same.

Significantly retooling molds is very expensive, (I mean come on now, to be truly accurate some, such as teh P-51D would have to be tossed and redone from scratch most likely ). I agree they're not perfect but I certainly don't hold the diecast world to the standards of detail you get in the plastic kits you mention. That would be beautiful to see, but very, very expensive to produce, not to mention collect.

I don't really see how the burden is on FM to improve it's offerings, if as you say competitors won't touch models they've produced? Rather the competition should sieze this weakness, and exploit it, and make FM react. I agree that there's plenty of room in the 1:48 space for other people to step in and duplicate models and liveries produced by FM. Even when that happens I'll retain my FM stuff, as like I said, I appreciate the diversity fo the hobby, and it also helps that I'm not a rivet counter -- no disrespect to any rivet counters out there, I admire the wealth of knowledge and pursuit of accuracy you bring to our happy family here at MH II

And I do think FM has many good models in its range that are worthy of picking up, and some real turds.

Sure, it would be great if they would step up and address those, but I'm not going to hold my breath. We'd all probably still be driving Model-Ts if Mr. Ford never had any competition... which is what's needed in teh 1:48 space to put the heat on FM. And, like I said, at least FM's prices have fallen.

No offense taken, (heck I've taken more than my share of shots at FM and others on my site). And I agree in part to your sentiments, just thought the initial comment was a bit over-the-top, at least without context.

To each their own, heck we all know a stinky rodent around here that actually threw away a Corgi mustang! (not that that made Corgi make their mold better, and there's duplication in the 1:72 space -- Corgi, Dragon, Witty, IXO all make P-51Ds... so why does FM have a monopoly in 1:48?)

I'd rather have a so-so model now, than maybe a better one 10 years from now, so I admire your resolve -- if I had some of that, I'd not have all these SpecCast models in the closet

[planenutsfrog]

At last !!! It shoud be a III E then, so it will be possible to make most variants by just changing the nose or fin or removing the doppler radome...

So, my wish list :

France : Mirage III E
Switzerland : Mirage III S
Belgium : Mirage V BA
South Africa : Mirage III EZ
Australia : Mirage III O

[SKUNKY]

Originally Posted by PappyB

heck we all know a stinky rodent around here that actually threw away a Corgi mustang! (not that that made Corgi make their mold better, )

Brothers in diecast...I challenge you. Pick up the gauntlet and continue where I left off..Throw away your Corgi Mustangs!..Then they will get the message..and while you're at it, throw away your FM ones too. They suck tremendously.

We shall overcome....

[swoop]

I have 10 FM 1:48 models and I like them all. Maybe .... just maybe, I can squeeze one or two into my collection...... but only after I get the HM Buffalo. So many good models on the horizion. What can I sell to make room?. DILEMMA....DILEMMA.

[Elmer]

Originally Posted by PappyB

Significantly retooling molds is very expensive, (I mean come on now, to be truly accurate some, such as teh P-51D would have to be tossed and redone from scratch most likely ). I agree they're not perfect but I certainly don't hold the diecast world to the standards of detail you get in the plastic kits you mention. That would be beautiful to see, but very, very expensive to produce, not to mention collect.

I don't really see how the burden is on FM to improve it's offerings, if as you say competitors won't touch models they've produced? Rather the competition should sieze this weakness, and exploit it, and make FM react. I agree that there's plenty of room in the 1:48 space for other people to step in and duplicate models and liveries produced by FM. Even when that happens I'll retain my FM stuff, as like I said, I appreciate the diversity fo the hobby, and it also helps that I'm not a rivet counter -- no disrespect to any rivet counters out there, I admire the wealth of knowledge and pursuit of accuracy you bring to our happy family here at MH II

And I do think FM has many good models in its range that are worthy of picking up, and some real turds.

Sure, it would be great if they would step up and address those, but I'm not going to hold my breath. We'd all probably still be driving Model-Ts if Mr. Ford never had any competition... which is what's needed in teh 1:48 space to put the heat on FM. And, like I said, at least FM's prices have fallen.

No offense taken, (heck I've taken more than my share of shots at FM and others on my site). And I agree in part to your sentiments, just thought the initial comment was a bit over-the-top, at least without context.

To each their own, heck we all know a stinky rodent around here that actually threw away a Corgi mustang! (not that that made Corgi make their mold better, and there's duplication in the 1:72 space -- Corgi, Dragon, Witty, IXO all make P-51Ds... so why does FM have a monopoly in 1:48?)

I'd rather have a so-so model now, than maybe a better one 10 years from now, so I admire your resolve -- if I had some of that, I'd not have all these SpecCast models in the closet

Thanks for your comments Pappy. I will attempt to address your outstanding points:

1) Let me clarify what I meant (as opposed to what I wrote) about "re-tooling:" I know that it would be expensive and impractical (and impossible) for FM to scrap all their old molds and start over. Rather, I think FM needs to raise its standard for the new molds it creates, beginning this year. I think the term "re-booting" more accurately captures what I would like to see at FM: a philosophical shift toward creating models with high level of detail and accuracy, similar to EI. I think EI has the right philosophy:
"Eagles International is the latest line of die-cast products from OMI. Our replicas reflect a belief that you, the customer, deserve more for your money. Every replica produced is painstakingly researched for accuracy and detail as it should be! Having distributed aviation replica products for the last eighteen years we've listened to your ideas and requests for something better (quoted from EI's web-site)."


2) I agree with you, there is no burden on FM to improve unless 1) its competitors directly compete (i.e. do the same models), and/or 2) consumers simply refuse to purchase their offerings. Hopefully, market forces will put the heat on FM.

3) Why does FM have a monopoly in 1:48? Perhaps what I wrote about a monopoly is a bit stong, but I have little hope that models they have produced (e.g. P-51D, Spitfire Mk. V) will be taken on by other manufacturers any time soon. Here is some evidence that this may sadly be true:
http://forum.themodelhangar.com/show...t=1248&page=10

I respect and admire your passion for die cast collecting Pappy. Heck, your web-site was instrumental in finally getting me hooked! I was skeptical about diecast (yeah because of my background in plastic), but then Dragon's BBD and KT II, EI's Mustang, and a few others made me re-think my position on diecast. These are outstanding models. I would put BBD up against many (if not most) 1:72 plastic kits for sheer beauty. However, I am not willing to purchase "a so-so model now, than maybe a better one 10 years from now." I will wait for the better one, and if never comes out... well I will live with that.

Hopefully, this debate will be a tiny drop in the bucket of forces that will persuade FM it is time to improve.