[FormerViperDriver]

Originally Posted by lanslide

If I knew that EI was still going to release the T-bolt, I would wait for it and get a few versions for sure! I still can't understand why EI produced the Texan before the T-bolt.

Same here. I can easily bypass an FM/A Razorback T-Bolt if I know EI will make it in, let's say, the next 12 to 18 months. If on the other hand they decide never to make it because FM is already doing it, I'll be very disappointed. I do understand the economic considerations, but EI should know that more than a few of us will buy quality, even at a higher price and even if we have to wait a bit (but not forever).

FVD

[SnoopyAce]

I'll be disappointed too. I really want an EI T-bolt!

[Elmer]

Great points, Pappy. Thanks for putting that post back up. You give me much to think about too.

Quality above all else... I am not sure this is a "theory" I put forth for the diecast market. Rather, it is a guideline I use to select models I want to admire, display, and enjoy. I realize we all have different tastes. What I define as quality may not be shared by others. Nevertheless, I think the diecast world can settle on a set of "standards" for the industry, which are important.

Since I joined this forum, I have tried to articulate (badly) that FM/A is not even trying to rise to standards set by companies like HM, C1, EI, CW, and even Dragon, Witty, and yes Corgi. All of these companies, to me, appear to be trying to deliver a higher quality model than was seen three, four, five years ago. They have done this by adopting a set of consistent standards it applies on all models. For example: Standard 1: no water slide decals; Standard 2) reduce seam width to ____ (you fill in the blank); Standard 3) No exposed screw heads; Standard 4) Produce some working feature on the model; Standard 5) produce some level of mold detail, etc. etc. etc. (these are only suggested examples). Acceptable standards vary from one company to the next, but at least I see some internal consistency with most companies.

I cannot see that FM/A has any set of standards. It has made some small baby steps--it introduced some rivet detail on SOME models; it eliminated exposed screw heads on SOME models; it got the shape right on SOME models; it has improved fit on SOME models. But it is all over the board, with no consistency, and no model hitting a home run. It is not offering working features on any model--even something as simple as a positionable canopy. And, can I tell which model is going to have pad printed graphics vs. water slide decals before I buy? No. Not unless you buy the model first and tell me. Can I tell which model is going to have exposed screws? No. Not unless you buy the model first and tell me.

On the other hand... can I trust that a CW model will have pad printed graphics, with no water slide decals? Absolutely. I do not need you to buy first and then tell me. Can I trust that C1 will plug all screw holes and not leave any exposed? Absolutely. And, again, I do not need anyone to tell me this, because I know this company has adopted this standard and will not deviate from it.

This is the problem I see with FM/A. I can't see that they have adopted any standard at all. They are not consistent. Thus, they are not reliable. To me, the vision eminating from the company is they just don't care about a standard of quality for their models. They are not about standards. Five years ago? Perhaps. Not now.

And yes... I may be hopelessly wrong, but I do think I can make a difference as a consumer to 1) either get FM/A to change company policies and practices and improve products by adopting standards, or 2) help force them out of business if they refuse. I can do this in two ways: 1) withhold my money; and 2) point out product deficiencies to my peers, explain why I think standards are important, and encourage my peers to purchase other models that are clearly built with standards. I am only one small consumer/collector. This I know. But if I am the lone voice screaming in the wilderness, I believe I can make a difference, eventually. If I have helped convince one other consumer/collector to to do as I have done relative to FM/A... I have made a difference for the industry.

I have said many times, I want FM/A to succeed in the industry. But I refuse to buy any model from any company that I cannot trust to have some set of standards I can trust when making a purchase. I am not arguing this is a rock solid guarantee for a quality model and that every model coming from a company with standards will be a sure fire winner with no problems. But at least I know I am not getting a model with water slide decals or exposed screw heads or no working features, or almost zero mold detail.

[wmosner]

Elmer, I agree with almost everything you have to say but here is the sad reality for me. I now only collect 1:48, I am rapidly approaching 60 and I want the Rozzie Geth P-40D now not at some undermined time in the future. I cannot wait forever to see if EI will make it or any other Bolt for that matter. From a normal viewing distance the Franklins look pretty good and most of the people that take the time to look at my display would not know a Bolt from a Mustang. Carousels are great but we cannot even get a stand with them and what (or when) is their next release going to be? EI's are great but I would never have a Texan in my collection and what (or when) is their next release going to be? Compromise is what I have to live with. I even have some 1:48 21st Century Me 109G's and K's in my collection because, again, where else am I going to get them from.

Bill

[Elmer]

Originally Posted by wmosner

Elmer, I agree with almost everything you have to say but here is the sad reality for me. I now only collect 1:48, I am rapidly approaching 60 and I want the Rozzie Geth P-40D now not at some undermined time in the future. I cannot wait forever to see if EI will make it or any other Bolt for that matter. From a normal viewing distance the Franklins look pretty good and most of the people that take the time to look at my display would not know a Bolt from a Mustang. Carousels are great but we cannot even get a stand with them and what (or when) is their next release going to be? EI's are great but I would never have a Texan in my collection and what (or when) is their next release going to be? Compromise is what I have to live with. I even have some 1:48 21st Century Me 109G's and K's in my collection because, again, where else am I going to get them from.

Bill

I empathize with you, Bill. You are in a tough spot and compromise will be what you will have to live with. However, may I offer some "food for thought?" I am assuming you too would prefer a model built with a set of standards. Ok... you can compromise and buy this T-Bolt now, and so can collector A, B, C, D, etc., etc., etc. and live with a model that has a very low level of standard in construction, and thereby provide incentive for FM/A to continue to build models with a very low standards (actually, I believe FM/A has adopted a no standard rule), and thereby continue the systemic problem of 1:48 diecast models that have poor quality (nearly all FM/As)... OR... you can refuse the compromise, and so can collector A, B, C, D, etc., etc., etc., thereby forcing FM/A to adopt a set of higher standards for their models, and thereby improve the 1:48 market for yourself and for your collector peers for the future. In this scenario, you will be collector A and I will be collector B. Now, all we need is collector C to join us. And then D, and so on. There is always hope for a high quality Rozzie Geth in the future. Ok, I am not an economist... but we see this type of market force in play all the time. When consumers want a better product, they refuse to buy the old poor product. This forces the producer (if he wants to make money and stay in the market), to make a better product, right? Admitted, this may be an oversimplification, but I believe the principle is sound. After all, EI was built on a foundation of "higher standards" demanded by the collector. This comes from its mission statement posted on its web-site.

Pappy stated that he can't see the exposed screw-heads while Rozzie Geth is parked on his shelf. This reminds me of an experience with my son. I recently asked him to clean up his legos (a huge mess all over his floor). He came downstairs in a matter of minutes and said "Ok dad, my legos are cleaned up." Well, I knew he couldn't have done this so quickly, so I said, "Ok, let's go inspect your room." Sure enough, the legos were not in sight and appeared to be "cleaned up." But being the perceptive dad that I am, I could smell something fishy. So I started looking around. Where do you think I found hundreds of lego pieces? Piled up between his bed and the wall. Well, obviously this was not acceptable, and I had to teach him a higher set of standards for cleaning his room.

Rozzie Geth may look good from a distance sitting on that shelf, but it still smells fishy. You and I can demand a higher standard from FM/A. Right now, FM/A could improve the quality and look of existing molds without modifying the molds. This includes the P-47. Hobby Master has already proved this possible. On the first F2A release, there was an exposed screwhead and a monotone engine color. On the recent F2A release, there is a plug for the screwhead and a bi-tone engine color. This is convincing action that Hobby Master "cares" about the look of its models. How can I bear the look of an FM/A model I purchase, if I can't see that its producer cares a hoot ner holler about the model it produces?

So, I lay down a challenge to FM/A right now, with a commitment on my part: you improve your existing P-47 mold by adopting a set of consistent high quality standards, and apply these as best you can to the existing mold and to all existing molds (this includes plugging recessed screwheads, removing non recessed screwheads and using glue instead, commiting to no more water-slide decals, improve the engine compartment with a more detailed engine, and overlay all of this with a beautiful finish job, complete with extensive stenciling), and I will buy not just one or two, but several. Is it a perfect model? No, the mold is still old with little mold detail, but at least I will see convincing action that FM/A has turned a corner, adopted a set of higher industry standards, and demonstrated with ACTION that it really does care about the look of its product. (Sorry, I will not buy a P-51 no matter how much you try to improve the existing mold--that one you will have to scrap and start over-- same goes for the Me 109).

And I will also commit to Eagles, that I will buy several of its P-47s, no matter how many new and improved P-47s FM/A puts out.

[Elmer]

Originally Posted by Elmer

FM/A is not even trying to rise to standards set by companies like HM, C1, EI, CW, and even Dragon, Witty, and yes Corgi.

How can I forget Gemini Aces? Sorry, Gemini Aces. Here is a perfect example of a company that believes a better product can be built, has adopted a set of high standards for itself... and yes, consumers responded.

[PappyB]

Originally Posted by Elmer

Pappy stated that he can't see the exposed screw-heads while Rozzie Geth is parked on his shelf. This reminds me of an experience with my son. I recently asked him to clean up his legos (a huge mess all over his floor). He came downstairs in a matter of minutes and said "Ok dad, my legos are cleaned up." Well, I knew he couldn't have done this so quickly, so I said, "Ok, let's go inspect your room." Sure enough, the legos were not in sight and appeared to be "cleaned up." But being the perceptive dad that I am, I could smell something fishy. So I started looking around. Where do you think I found hundreds of lego pieces? Piled up between his bed and the wall. Well, obviously this was not acceptable, and I had to teach him a higher set of standards for cleaning his room.

Sorry, Elmer -- Apples and Oranges to me here -- I didn't say you couldn't see the screws if you picked it up and looked for them In the end, I just don't expect museum quality replicas from everyone, that would be nice, but I don't think it's a realistic goal. I don't see FM overhauling its biz any time soon, as as I've said, there are some FM models I do like as they are now -- more detail, would be better sure. The screw heads just don't bother me that much -- no more than Corgi's aging Spitfire mold does in comparison to say, Gemini Aces, which now makes THE Spit to own in 1:72 IMHO -- will I throw all my Corgis out now, or refuse to buy any more Corgis until they get "on the ball" .... no. (And someone correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe FM is using sticker decals anymore with its models, nor has it been for quite some time now... )

As for your point about standards, well I don't think we have standards across the board with the other makers. EI's P-51Bs are great, the Texan to me is not so great -- I don't want one after seeing one.... HM's QA is all over the place and it gives you certain options with some models, and not with others -- then there's the wash (clearly no standard there yet). Corgi has some great recent molds, and some pretty poor ones (Swordfish versus P-51B, for example) as well as plenty of issues with gaps/joins/seams... Dragon has some great molds, some poor ones, and inconsistent fit/finish with gear and other fiddly bits. Corgi's panel lines are wider and deeper than other's in 1:72. Witty has some serious accuracy issues and errors that took forever to correct (spit slipper tank and pilot issue, for example). The way I see it, everyone is inconsistent. If I waited for the industry across the board to develop a uniform set of standards and only bought models that adhered to same, I wouldn't have any models....(but my wife would be happier). Even if this did happen, I think the hobby would be much less interesting. I enjoy all the differences between vendors approaches and the different scales and the warts become part of the charm to me as I look at my very diverse collection with models from just about everyone that makes them. Some are more perfect that others, but none are perfect and I don't really expect to ever see a perfect model.

FM's obviously been doing something right, as despite all their issues they are still around, still field one of the most diverse product ranges in the industry and are still pumping out new options. I cleaned out a good amount of my FM collection this past summer, and I'm glad I did. However, I'm also glad I held on to a few and I truly like the models I do still have. I didn't think I'd buy any more, honestly, but here I am grabbing one here and there (at silly prices).

If EI wants to get around to producing a T-bolt there's room on my shelf for both FM and EI, so I will support them with my $ and unlike FM I will pay full price for an EI T-bolt if it is at least up to the "standards" set by the Mustang. Frankly, I don't think we should be holding out too much hope for EI to bring us all that much any time soon, so I'm not holding my breath. I hope I'm wrong there, really do, time will tell. They've been awfully quiet for quite some time now in regard to future plans.

I understand and respect your perspective, I just don't share it is all. I don't think there are anything close to standards as of yet in this hobby. I've yet to see any company deliver the same level of quality across each and every mold and repaint it releases. Actually, maybe FM comes the closest when I think about it to delivering on expectations from one model to the next.. . it's just that some of our expectations are higher than others perhaps.

Peace.

[STARMAN 352ND]

It would of been nice to have EI make a P-47....I was hoping to get one too.
I think it be worth the wait if they still do one.
FM after all does miss out on alot of detail on some of the planes they make.
The way the market is moving you really have to beat the other companies to the punch
on these new mold releases now days..Otherwise you just lose out..
JP

[wmosner]

I do not have any idea what EI's market is but if it is Toys R Us or Target than the first one there wins. If their market is the true collector than quality wins. I am waiting for my FM P-47 to arrive but if EI came out with a better P-47 tomorrow I would order it without hesitation. I believe most collectors also like to have the same plane but in different liveries. I like to collect the various aces so I would have the Rozzie Geth as well as Zabreski's and maybe even one or two more if they really appealed to me. So, to make a long story short, just because FM has a P-47 should not stop EI.

[mustangdriver]

If we can get Shilling's Hairless Joe in a great quality 1/48th scale bird, that would be awesome. It is a tough paint scheme.