[hworth18]

Originally Posted by lanslide

If I knew that EI was still going to release the T-bolt, I would wait for it and get a few versions for sure! I still can't understand why EI produced the Texan before the T-bolt.

The Texan was a "no-brainer" and is EI's best selling plane to date.. Even though it isn't a warbird (in its original form) it was a plane flown by almost all armed forces pilots until it was retired (and by many different countries), and is the most numerous surviving "warbird" still being flown today..

[Elmer]

Originally Posted by hworth18

I've said this before and I'll say it again.. HM, while making nice stuff, will be the death of this hobby as we know it if they continue at their current pace... Mark my words......

Hmm... dire, indeed. What about HM's trend toward limited edition runs and higher prices? Sure the Buffs sold in the 30.00 range, the Spit in the 40.00 range, but looks like the Panther will be in the 60.00 range and the new 1:32 SBDs in the 130.00-150.00 range. I was a bit concerned with the price of the F2As. I wondered how C1 (or anyone else) could compete with that... but it appears HM prices for 1:48 may settle in the C1 range. Or is it a matter of sheer volume being dumped on the market by HM, regardless of cost?

[hworth18]

Originally Posted by Elmer

Hmm... dire, indeed. What about HM's trend toward limited edition runs and higher prices? Sure the Buffs sold in the 30.00 range, the Spit in the 40.00 range, but looks like the Panther will be in the 60.00 range and the new 1:32 SBDs in the 130.00-150.00 range. I was a bit concerned with the price of the F2As. I wondered how C1 (or anyone else) could compete with that... but it appears HM prices for 1:48 may settle in the C1 range. Or is it a matter of sheer volume being dumped on the market by HM, regardless of cost?

That last statement pretty much sums it up.. And not only that, but to get this hobby on track, HM needs to reduce their yearly releases to only one or two examples of each plane in a year, not every other month.. I feel that HM is finishing what Dragon started in swamping the market with diecast to the point that the planes aren't worth the zinc they are made of which makes us happy in the short term, but we will regret it in the long run..
Now I know many don't collect as an investment, but a "collecting hobby" isn't just for the love of the hobby, but also for the knowlege that the collection has a certain amount of value at the end of the day.. Again, it isn't the quality, or even the price, but the quantity that is sending the hobby down the road of the NASCAR collectible, which I was a big part of and now wish I wasn't..

[Elmer]

You don't have to settle for "good enough", Pappy. Demand more/better, by not buying. It starts with a few collectors who will say "I've had enough of your mediocre product, and I will not buy." FM/A will never improve its product if collectors settle for the "good enough" rationale. You want better, right?

Pappy... where did your post go??? I swear you had a post right here between this one and Harry's previous! Now everyone will think I am crazy like Tank Nut if your post doesn't reappear!

[hworth18]

Originally Posted by Elmer

You don't have to settle for "good enough", Pappy. Demand more/better, by not buying. It starts with a few collectors who will say "I've had enough of your mediocre product, and I will not buy." FM/A will never improve its product if collectors settle for the "good enough" rationale. You want better, right?

Pappy... where did your post go???

He deleted it..

I think that HMs policy of limiting their models is getting back on the right track, and according to Hawkones site, they will also be only releasing a few models of each type in a year, which is what I pretty much suggested above and I think can help greatly, but I also think that some molds need to be rested completely and let the market catch up..This strategy could also give HMs models something they haven't had before which is value..

[Elmer]

Originally Posted by hworth18

He deleted it..

Ah, Pappy, you had some terrific thoughts there! Please join back in with those thoughts reformulated. I value your insights and judgment in these matters.

[PappyB]

Originally Posted by hworth18

He deleted it..

I think that HMs policy of limiting their models is getting back on the right track, and according to Hawkones site, they will also be only releasing a few models of each type in a year, which is what I pretty much suggested above and I think can help greatly, but I also think that some molds need to be rested completely and let the market catch up..This strategy could also give HMs models something they haven't had before which is value..

While I was penning my post our good friend Harry added to his thoughts, which I saw immediately after I hit "submit", so I no longer felt my post was relevant, so I deleted it -- sorry, thought I was fast enough that no one would notice

Anyhow, I don't quite share the view that HM is bad for the hobby. A lot of what they are making is stuff WE said we wanted... and we wanted yesterday, afterall. It's not like they're trampling all over other makers toes. I think that if they do end up making a P-51D that will be a great test of the "FM did it so I can't theory". Dragon came on the scene in 1:72 with a big splash and Corgi's still here.... as are several more new 1:72 brands (Gemini, Witty, IXO). All of these guys have some duplication of molds... why can't 1:48 endure some of the same? But I'm not the one that has to take the financial risks of coming out with new toolings, so...

I don't see HM as having rock bottom prices anymore really, either -- and I also think their trend towards higher prices and lower production runs should help the "collector" in the long run. I think it's normal for new players to come in "hot and heavy" and make a lot of noise with a lot of new product to catch people's attention. I would be suprised to see HM keep this pace up over the long run, but time will tell. Right now I think they're really just trying to get people aware of the brand and are using a bit of a shotgun approach, too, to see what avenues to focus on down the road. Personally, I don't think HM's been around long enough yet to answer the "value" question.

As for Dragon, yes there are lots of their models that are "worth" far less than original MSRPs, but the same is true for Corgi, too. And there are some Dragon's that are "collectible" (Try finding a 50056 Chippy Ho these days...). I don't think that their ratio is that far off from Corgi's really when you consider the relative differences in their product offerings (DRagon much fewer molds than Corgi, and thus much fewer "gems"). That said, I don't buy much Dragon anymore these days -- just stuff on "super sale" so I'm not afraid of losing my shirt on it down the road. And if I do lose %50 on a model when I sell it, oh well -- I lilkely got enough enjoyment out of it while I had it to make the pill less bitter. And this only makes the occassional sale at a profit sweeter, really.

And certainly, if Elmer's theory of "quality above all else" is true if EI made a T-bolt FM would die on the vine... but I think there's room for both. As long as the liveries are diffferent I don't think I'd dump my FM P-47Ds if EI were to make one, I'd just buy EI going forward. Same is true for HM and CW with the Phantom -- I'm not going to toss my Corgi Annette in the dumpster anytime soon. When the "better" stuff comes out the "good enough" stuff will likely still have a reason to exist. Not everyone can afford $100 for the best darn P-47 in 1:48 that looks like you can crank it up and watch it roar down the runway.... for many, the "in the ballpark" model that suits their wallet is acceptable. Sometimes I find myself on both sides of that fence.

But no, Elmer, I don't think necessarily that my not buying a FM T-bolt for $30 is going to have any major impact on anyone else coming into the market or "doing better". Like it or not FM is the corgi of 1:48 and while I agree that the line has issues I'm not as demanding as you when it comes to these models I guess. I'd rather have a T-bolt that's lacking in details than no T-bolt at all and remember, when FM came along they were really IT in 1:48, without them there wouldn't be much to collect at all in this scale I think. I do wish they'd mature with the times, as the MSRP of their models should come with the features you mention and want. However, I don't buy FM at anywhere near MSRP... so at least they're not making much money on me .

FM stuff should have much lower MSRPs IMHO. But the stuff I have, I do like -- warts and all -- even my Rozzie Geth II. (for the record, I can't see a single screw when it's sitting on the shelf... )

Okay, it's late and I'm rambling again -- night gents!

[Cardinal]

Originally Posted by PappyB

While I was penning my post our good friend Harry added to his thoughts, which I saw immediately after I hit "submit", so I no longer felt my post was relevant, so I deleted it -- sorry, thought I was fast enough that no one would notice

Anyhow, I don't quite share the view that HM is bad for the hobby. A lot of what they are making is stuff WE said we wanted... and we wanted yesterday, afterall. It's not like they're trampling all over other makers toes. I think that if they do end up making a P-51D that will be a great test of the "FM did it so I can't theory". Dragon came on the scene in 1:72 with a big splash and Corgi's still here.... as are several more new 1:72 brands (Gemini, Witty, IXO). All of these guys have some duplication of molds... why can't 1:48 endure some of the same? But I'm not the one that has to take the financial risks of coming out with new toolings, so...

I don't see HM as having rock bottom prices anymore really, either -- and I also think their trend towards higher prices and lower production runs should help the "collector" in the long run. I think it's normal for new players to come in "hot and heavy" and make a lot of noise with a lot of new product to catch people's attention. I would be suprised to see HM keep this pace up over the long run, but time will tell. Right now I think they're really just trying to get people aware of the brand and are using a bit of a shotgun approach, too, to see what avenues to focus on down the road. Personally, I don't think HM's been around long enough yet to answer the "value" question.

As for Dragon, yes there are lots of their models that are "worth" far less than original MSRPs, but the same is true for Corgi, too. And there are some Dragon's that are "collectible" (Try finding a 50056 Chippy Ho these days...). I don't think that their ratio is that far off from Corgi's really when you consider the relative differences in their product offerings (DRagon much fewer molds than Corgi, and thus much fewer "gems"). That said, I don't buy much Dragon anymore these days -- just stuff on "super sale" so I'm not afraid of losing my shirt on it down the road. And if I do lose %50 on a model when I sell it, oh well -- I lilkely got enough enjoyment out of it while I had it to make the pill less bitter. And this only makes the occassional sale at a profit sweeter, really.

And certainly, if Elmer's theory of "quality above all else" is true if EI made a T-bolt FM would die on the vine... but I think there's room for both. As long as the liveries are diffferent I don't think I'd dump my FM P-47Ds if EI were to make one, I'd just buy EI going forward. Same is true for HM and CW with the Phantom -- I'm not going to toss my Corgi Annette in the dumpster anytime soon. When the "better" stuff comes out the "good enough" stuff will likely still have a reason to exist. Not everyone can afford $100 for the best darn P-47 in 1:48 that looks like you can crank it up and watch it roar down the runway.... for many, the "in the ballpark" model that suits their wallet is acceptable. Sometimes I find myself on both sides of that fence.

But no, Elmer, I don't think necessarily that my not buying a FM T-bolt for $30 is going to have any major impact on anyone else coming into the market or "doing better". Like it or not FM is the corgi of 1:48 and while I agree that the line has issues I'm not as demanding as you when it comes to these models I guess. I'd rather have a T-bolt that's lacking in details than no T-bolt at all and remember, when FM came along they were really IT in 1:48, without them there wouldn't be much to collect at all in this scale I think. I do wish they'd mature with the times, as the MSRP of their models should come with the features you mention and want. However, I don't buy FM at anywhere near MSRP... so at least they're not making much money on me .

FM stuff should have much lower MSRPs IMHO. But the stuff I have, I do like -- warts and all -- even my Rozzie Geth II. (for the record, I can't see a single screw when it's sitting on the shelf... )

Okay, it's late and I'm rambling again -- night gents!

If that's rambling PappyB, I really look forward to your more articulate comments - great post .

[lanslide]

PappyB, you've really given me some food for thought - thank you!

[flyXwire]

Originally Posted by Cardinal

If that's rambling PappyB, I really look forward to your more articulate comments - great post .

Check out PappyB's BLOG for some eye-opener, Cardo.