[Cardinal]

Originally Posted by Legio LXXII

No ruffled feathers here Gort, I respect everyones opinion. I haven't seen this much action in the Ground Vehicle Models section for some time.

Likewise, a little vigorous debate is sometimes a good thing as long as none of us get overly hot under the collar, myself included (with the exception of Gort as his robot suit has built in climate control and venting systems ).

My comments were also not directed at anyone personally as differing opinions should not only be respected but also make life a little more interesting if you ask me. I just felt that Dragon was being unfairly maligned, hence my vigorous defence of their product which has, in my opinion, been of considerable 'value' to the armour collecting community. Of course they make the occasional major faux pas, as do others, but I would like to give most companies the benefit of the doubt if they have made a positive contribution to the hobby in the past and are likely to continue doing so in future .

For the record, I still hold the opinions of both Hworth and Gort in the highest regard even if they appear to be slightly clouded by the effects of radiation emanating from a plasma leak on you know who's Flying Saucer

[FormerViperDriver]

Maybe we should start a poll on who collects for value, and who collects for strict enjoyment of the models. Admin, what say you? I think it might be interesting to see the results...

I for one think that both types of collecting are great in their own way, although I clearly count myself in the second category. As it turn out, I happen to have a few rare models in my collection, but that's pure luck and I never bought them with that in mind. Nor will I ever sell them (well, OK, maybe if someone offers me $10,000 ).

I do respect those who collect for value. It is a fact, though, that the two forms of collecting will clash in the sense that value collectors want their models to be unavailable to others (except from themselves at a premium price), whereas the second type of collector wants readily available, good-looking models at the cheapest price possible. Each diecast company has to decide which way they want to go...

FVD

[Cardinal]

Originally Posted by FormerViperDriver

Maybe we should start a poll on who collects for value, and who collects for strict enjoyment of the models. Admin, what say you? I think it might be interesting to see the results...

I for one think that both types of collecting are great in their own way, although I clearly count myself in the second category. As it turn out, I happen to have a few rare models in my collection, but that's pure luck and I never bought them with that in mind. Nor will I ever sell them (well, OK, maybe if someone offers me $10,000 ).

I do respect those who collect for value. It is a fact, though, that the two forms of collecting will clash in the sense that value collectors want their models to be unavailable to others (except from themselves at a premium price), whereas the second type of collector wants readily available, good-looking models at the cheapest price possible. Each diecast company has to decide which way they want to go...

FVD

I think that what you've said FVD (highlighted) is perhaps the essence of what the debate on this thread has become - you've provided a near perfect summation of the core clash of collecting 'cultures' (perhaps not as profound as the 'clash of civilisations' debate or Fukuyama's treatise on 'the end of history', but equally relevant in the context of diecast collecting) .

[Captain Eddie]

I don't collect Armor, but this thread can apply to aircraft also. I collect for the enjoyment of the pieces. I do, however, save the boxes. If they end up as some sort of reasonable investment, fine, but I do not collect with that in mind. I'll likely never sell them, but if my kids can get a reasonable amount of money for them after I'm gone, that would be great.

[dboulais]

Hello,
I have collected antique fishing lures for 40 years and spent 10's of thousands of dollars on them. A year ago I had to sell most of them. I was LUCKY to get 1/4 the price I orginally paid for them back. They were sold on eBay. So, it was not like they didn't have enough exposure to a willing number of buyers that got so low a selling price. The sales were spread out over a year, so I can't claim that the market was flooded all of a sudden so much, that interested parties could not buy what they wanted over a reasonable period of time. It just goes to show that you should collect what you like and can afford, but do NOT expect the rest of the world to ever pay you back! I have the same attitude toward my 300 diecast armor models and 700 diecast aircraft models. I collect them because I like them. It's still costing me almost half as much as I spend on the models to have custom display cases built to hold them, as it is for me to buy the models. I take as much pride in my 200 1/700 scale ship models that I built, as my other collections where the completed models were just purchased. Now if I didn't have 6 other collections going at the same time, I might be able to afford retire before I get 200 years old! Until then I'll just have to keep working for a living. I wrote two books about my antique fishing lure collection and they are in the Library of Congress. So I did get satisfaction, but I didn't make enough money to retire form my efforts. But I did make new friends and get recognition in the hobby. So, all in all I guess I got my money's worth.
Thank you,
Dennis
P.S. In addition to the above I collect: SciFi Novels, Military History books, Collectible card games, pocket knives, fishing reels, fishing rods, adventure / SciFi movie DVD's, 1/700 scale ship model kits, WWII military shoulder patches and other stuff.

[djjeffhall]

dboulais,
Welcome to the forum. I like you attitude.

[mikeb1958]

Originally Posted by dboulais

Hello,
I have collected antique fishing lures for 40 years and spent 10's of thousands of dollars on them. A year ago I had to sell most of them. I was LUCKY to get 1/4 the price I orginally paid for them back. They were sold on eBay. So, it was not like they didn't have enough exposure to a willing number of buyers that got so low a selling price. The sales were spread out over a year, so I can't claim that the market was flooded all of a sudden so much, that interested parties could not buy what they wanted over a reasonable period of time. It just goes to show that you should collect what you like and can afford, but do NOT expect the rest of the world to ever pay you back! I have the same attitude toward my 300 diecast armor models and 700 diecast aircraft models. I collect them because I like them. It's still costing me almost half as much as I spend on the models to have custom display cases built to hold them, as it is for me to buy the models. I take as much pride in my 200 1/700 scale ship models that I built, as my other collections where the completed models were just purchased. Now if I didn't have 6 other collections going at the same time, I might be able to afford retire before I get 200 years old! Until then I'll just have to keep working for a living. I wrote two books about my antique fishing lure collection and they are in the Library of Congress. So I did get satisfaction, but I didn't make enough money to retire form my efforts. But I did make new friends and get recognition in the hobby. So, all in all I guess I got my money's worth.
Thank you,
Dennis
P.S. In addition to the above I collect: SciFi Novels, Military History books, Collectible card games, pocket knives, fishing reels, fishing rods, adventure / SciFi movie DVD's, 1/700 scale ship model kits, WWII military shoulder patches and other stuff.

Hello Dennis and welcome to the forum! Great post and I agree with you. I am not looking to make a profit on my collection as well. I do it because I like them.
I have bought some dups accidently ( a bunch as I went nuts and didnt have a inventory) and on purpose when it was a great deal and I will sell those, but I will not sell the others in my collection. Over half of the planes and over 80% of the Dragon Armor I have are still in their original boxes due to space restrictions. But our next house will have double the space so I can buy some nice display cases for these. I know the display cases will cost a small fortune but that is part of the hobby and fun.

[MoMo]

Hi Guys,

Somehow I lost the thread,
then missed the thread,
then lost the thread of the thread,
and now that I've reread the thread,
I've got the thread in my head.

This thread seems to represent all angles. Whatever your take on the collecting bug, you've gotta admit that the point at which we all come to the same point is on the point of loving the pleasure which we derive from the collections which we collect, collectively.

We're all the same, yet different; we're all different, yet the same.

If you're a true collector, you collect at the right time. You have it there....you pounce! The pleasure which you get from your collection offsets the fact that you have had to deal with .....wits all week who buy into the Great Myths of the Age.

If you collect to make a profit, make sure that you will your collection to someone who will treasure it and keep it intact and viable and safe. They are the ones who might reap the harvest of your husbandry, not you. The seeds which you have sown have hardly poked their heads through the soil, and it's still early Spring.

I have no doubt that when the packaging changes, when the labour outprices itself, when the moulds are lost, when robots and lasers take over the shaping, painting and detailing of the wonders which we collect, then the artifacts of our age will come into their own. But.

Dream on, we'll not be here to see it.

In the meantime, just enjoy the chase and love the fact that we are grown up, can spend all the money we can afford on the toys we lusted after as children, and have the world at our beck and call if we want to research little replicas.

As a child, I used to stand with my face pressed against the plate-glass windows of the posh toyshops in the city centre. Their windows would be packed with the products of W.Brittains, Herald, Crescent, Cherilea, Dinky, Corgi, et al.: toy soldiers, tanks, guns, planes, all hand painted in the U.K. All are gone. Their prices to collectors is astronomical. They command these prices because there are few pristine survivors.

Have fun for the next 80 years!

[timbo]

Mo 100%

Yes it would be nice to know that my collection has some value, but I not fool enough to bet that. The toys of my youth that now fetch big bucks are all at this value because as kids we used to kill them (again and again and again). These Diecast hardly ever get into kids hands and therefore never get play worn. In the current future they will always be readily available. I have only been collecting diecast aircraft for the last year. Yes I have spent a lot, but I have been able to collect the vast majority of Corgi's back cat that I wanted for a reasonable price, and got what I feel are some great bargains. If something is going over the odds I won't buy it as I know there will be another cheaper very soon.

Going back to the original subject. Why would re-releasing the original issues really matter. The chances are that they will be different in some way (ie packaging, stock id, small detail change on the model), and therefore to a collector identifiable from the original. This is probably a win-win for both Dragon and the collector - both new and old.

[Copland]

Interesting discussion, as usual. I have a friend who bought 10 of the Dragon 60001 Tiger I tanks. He kept 1 and re-painted the other nine! It still haunts him! He buys and sells on e-bay, so, he is a collector/entrepeneur. You never know which model is going to be "hot." It seems to me that a "first issue" model would appreciate in value, if it is not re-issued. To my knowledge Dragon was the first company to issue a quality, pre-built, 1/72 Tiger I. What I would like to know is that if anyone ever bought one of the 60001 tanks for the ridiculous prices I have seen? - as high as $250.00. The problem is that I have put in a good deal of research concerning the diecast market, and am fairly knowledgeable on the value of these tanks( although I don't resell at all). My kids have not. So, when I am gone, I'm afraid my children's children will put them in the back yard and blow them up with firecrackers. O well.