[wmosner]

Originally Posted by wmosner

Did Wittmann's Tiger 1 at Kursk have the Leibstandarte symbol on the front?

I think I answered my own question if the caption on this photo is correct, there was no symbol.

[easy8]

Another question are the spare tracks on the turrent correct? If so, that would mean Wittmann had a mid-version Tiger at Kursk right?

easy8

[wmosner]

Originally Posted by easy8

Another question are the spare tracks on the turrent correct? If so, that would mean Wittmann had a mid-version Tiger at Kursk right?

easy8

Different pictures I ran across, the one with the Tigers on the train said that they were on the way to Kursk. Notice that some have the spare tracks on the turret and some don't.

[DirtyACE]

wsmoser, thanks for clearing it up. Do you know by any chance why certain Tigers had the spare tracks on the turrets and some didn't? Was it just by choice?

[wmosner]

Originally Posted by DirtyACE

wsmoser, thanks for clearing it up. Do you know by any chance why certain Tigers had the spare tracks on the turrets and some didn't? Was it just by choice?

Well, I have discovered that I have way too many books on planes and tanks. I did some more research on this tank last night and found a photo (Tigers on the Eastern Front by Jean Restayn) of the rear of what looks like to be this very tank number. I will post it later since I am at work. I have never read anything about the track placement on the turrents but I will delve into that topic also. On Tigers alone I probably have 10 or more books.

Bill

[wmosner]

Here is picture with final proof that Dragon has it right

[Shawn 507]

All Tigers could carry spare track on the turret sides. There really is no reason why some have them and others don't. Taking a SWAG, I'd guess its because the tank was rather new, and spare tracks were not in abundance for all. Nor had all of them been fitted with the track hangers, as the turret side was deemed the best location out of all tested/tried.
And while it could be used for additional armor, the Russians had few if any tanks at Kursk that at most combat ranges could cause harm to a Tiger's flanks.
As for why there is no traditional LSSAH symbol ( key in shield with wreath ) ? Basically the Waffen SS came up with alternate symbols for Kursk.
LSSAH had a horizontal bar with one verticle, flip this (T) upside down
Das Reich, horizontal bar with two verticle bars. Flip this (TT) upside down
Totenkopf, three verticle bars ( III )
Hope that helps!!
- Shawn ( see an armor guy can help on a wingie site ) Ferguson
PS Good luck finding the Whittman crew DML made. And oh by the way, they are dressed for Normandy, not Kursk. FYI

[DirtyACE]

Originally Posted by Shawn 507

All Tigers could carry spare track on the turret sides. There really is no reason why some have them and others don't. Taking a SWAG, I'd guess its because the tank was rather new, and spare tracks were not in abundance for all. Nor had all of them been fitted with the track hangers, as the turret side was deemed the best location out of all tested/tried.
And while it could be used for additional armor, the Russians had few if any tanks at Kursk that at most combat ranges could cause harm to a Tiger's flanks.
As for why there is no traditional LSSAH symbol ( key in shield with wreath ) ? Basically the Waffen SS came up with alternate symbols for Kursk.
LSSAH had a horizontal bar with one verticle, flip this (T) upside down
Das Reich, horizontal bar with two verticle bars. Flip this (TT) upside down
Totenkopf, three verticle bars ( III )
Hope that helps!!
- Shawn ( see an armor guy can help on a wingie site ) Ferguson
PS Good luck finding the Whittman crew DML made. And oh by the way, they are dressed for Normandy, not Kursk. FYI

Thanks for all the info, very interesting. So where would you find this upside down T on a Tiger? Would it be in the same spot as where the regular LSSAH symbol would be?

[wmosner]

The symbol is located in the same place as the shield & key would have been. I read somewhere that they went to these symbols just for Operation Zitadelle hoping to confuse the Soviets as to what units were actually there. I have not come across any photos of LSSAH tanks showing the symbol but have several showing Das Reich and Grossdeutchland tanks with their tactical symbols. Also, from what I have read, the majority of the German photographers were with the Grossdeutchland units which is why their are more pictures of their vehicles during this operation.

[DirtyACE]

Originally Posted by wmosner

The symbol is located in the same place as the shield & key would have been. I read somewhere that they went to these symbols just for Operation Zitadelle hoping to confuse the Soviets as to what units were actually there. I have not come across any photos of LSSAH tanks showing the symbol but have several showing Das Reich and Grossdeutchland tanks with their tactical symbols. Also, from what I have read, the majority of the German photographers were with the Grossdeutchland units which is why their are more pictures of their vehicles during this operation.

Grossdeutchland must have been more media friendly or something