[chascbv]

Originally Posted by DirtyACE

chascbv, which SS unit do you think the half-track belongs to? I imagine it's either from the LSSAH or Hitlerjugend.

Well... Plain dark yellow, no markings... This vehicle could belong to virtually ANY SS unit. However, it seems that the kit version of this vehicle specifies (again the other way round) that the unidentified vehicle belongs to some unit in Italy during 1944. So any SS unit in Italy in that year would be fine... 16.SS-Panzergrenadier Division "Reichsführer SS", for instance.

[DirtyACE]

Originally Posted by chascbv

Well... Plain dark yellow, no markings... This vehicle could belong to virtually ANY SS unit. However, it seems that the kit version of this vehicle specifies (again the other way round) that the unidentified vehicle belongs to some unit in Italy during 1944. So any SS unit in Italy in that year would be fine... 16.SS-Panzergrenadier Division "Reichsführer SS", for instance.

Really? I wonder why it says that it's from Southern Normandy then? Is Dragon's research on this really off?

[chascbv]

Originally Posted by DirtyACE

Really? I wonder why it says that it's from Southern Normandy then? Is Dragon's research on this really off?

Well, that's what I was trying to explain in my review (my English, oh my!) - Dragon put the label of the yellow vehicle on the camoed vehicle, and that of the camoed vehicle on the yellow one, something of a cross-mistake, I guess.

Thus, it is the camoed half-track that belongs to Panzer Lehr Division (accordingly it displays both a Panzer Lehr divisional insignia and a WH license plate), and was in Southern Normandy in the summer of 1944 (the data on the yellow vehicle box). And it is the yellow half-track that belongs to an "unidentified" SS unit (the term SS is not in the label, but the model has an SS license plate) and was in Italy sometime in 1944 (the data on the camoed vehicle box).

I suggested 16.SS-Panzergrenadier Division for the yellow half-track simply because this unit was in Italy in 1944, and because I've seen a photograph of StuGs from this division in Rome that were also painted plain dark yellow with no tactical numbers (enclosed).

It is all a bit confusing, but hopefully I managed to explain it a wee bit better this time!

[Legio LXXII]

Originally Posted by DirtyACE

Really? I wonder why it says that it's from Southern Normandy then? Is Dragon's research on this really off?

I have heard on various plastic model forums that Dragon has been off on their research more than once. That being said, this is another one of those examples that could really work anywhere on the Western Front (France, Italy, Germany, etc., probably even the Eastern Front). There are no specific unit markings, which is actually good because you the consumer can make it whatever you want. The only limitations would be if the license plate says "SS" or "WH", besides that it could be anything.

Contrary to German high command directives, unit markings were not always used on vehicles. Photographic evidence supports this, that is why we have "unknown" unit vehicles. It's similar to what theoretically makes up a platoon, company, division, etc. of soldiers on paper, just because in theory it should be "X" amount, in the field under battlefield conditions it's usually much different.

[DirtyACE]

Thank you both for clarifying this. I realize that Dragon makes mistakes with their research which is a bit surprising since I would assume that they would have the resources to do it properly. I'm certainly glad that many very knowledgeable people such as yourselves are part of this forum. Thanks again.

PS - chascbv, your English is excellent. In fact, it's better than that of many native speakers that I know.

[chascbv]

First, thank you very much, DirtyACE, for your compliment, it is really very kind of you!

Second, let me tell you all about my recently purchased Jagdpanther, one of the earlier models by Dragon Armor. I chose to purchase this model because of its eye-catching camo scheme, and I was really surprised when the model finally arrived for it is a beauty, much more so than in the pictures you see on the Web. I can easily categorize this model as the most aesthetically pleasing vehicle in my collection.

I was a bit worried that it might have inaccuracies, as I had read somewhere that such was the case with these Jagdpanthers, particularly around the engine deck area. After attentive comparison to several blueprints of the beast, I can assure this model is really an accurate representation of a late Jagdpanther; some details are not as fine as those in recent releases, but the model is nontheless excellent in all respects. Also, most parts are metal, so heft-lovers will be very pleased with this one.

Is that camo scheme real? It might well be, as the enclosed (upper) picture proves (approximately). However, the unit/place attribution by Dragon seems wrong. There was indeed a Jagdpanther No. 102 in sPzJgAbt 560, a Wehrmacht unit that was assigned to 12.SS-PzDiv "Hitlerjugend" at the time of the Ardennes campaign. The vehicle fought at Bütgenbach, a German-speaking village in Belgium, by the German border, on the Northernmost stretches of the frontline. A picture of this and a companion Jagdpanther that were disabled and abandoned to the US Army shows a much more standard camo scheme, partially covered with white paint (as in a worn-out whitewash scheme). On the other hand, the late-type exhausts in the model would place our tank at a later date, e.g., February-May 1945.

While sPzJgAbt 654 used a similar scheme around May 1945, pictures and illustrations show a different layout of parallel stripes, namely green and brown stripes separated by thinner yellow bands - see the other (lower) photograph enclosed. So, to which unit did our Jagdpanther belong? Unfortunately, I don't know. The picture showing the scheme portrayed by Dragon had no legend (anybody can help here?), and a colour profile I have seen (the right scheme but no tactical number) defined the vehicle as pertaining to an "unidentified" unit. Any intel on this topic would be very welcome!

Now, if you want a really beautiful cat (kinda Chocolate British Shorthair, or Maine Coon - LOL) to liven up your ranks of armour, just treat yourself to this awsome Jagdpanther. I love mine!

[DirtyACE]

I have this Jagdpanther as well and it is also one of my favorite tanks. In fact, I love all Jagdpanthers that Dragon has released.

Excellent review, but it is unfortunate that we don't really know to which unit this vehicle really belongs too.

[chascbv]

Originally Posted by DirtyACE

I have this Jagdpanther as well and it is also one of my favorite tanks. In fact, I love all Jagdpanthers that Dragon has released.

Excellent review, but it is unfortunate that we don't really know to which unit this vehicle really belongs too.

We don't really know it, but using parallel, diagonal stripes around the entire vehicle was not common practice at all, so I suspect this type of scheme was devised and used by only one unit, probably as some sort of hallmark. Add some variation in the pattern to suit the personal taste of each tank commander, and there you are! So my guess is that this was a pattern typical of sPzJgAbt 654!

[DirtyACE]

Nice job chascbv on narrowing down the unit. Now how about determining where this vehicle fought? Do you have the book about sPzJgAbt 654 that you put in your post?

[chascbv]

Originally Posted by DirtyACE

Nice job chascbv on narrowing down the unit. Now how about determining where this vehicle fought? Do you have the book about sPzJgAbt 654 that you put in your post?

I (still) do not have this book (sniff...). However, pictures and colour illustrations depicting these "striped" Jagdpanthers - with both the "unidentified unit" and "sPzJgAbt 654" sort of legend - are consistent regarding the time period: March-May 1945. Also, these pictures and illustrations show late-version vehicles, often fitted with late-type flame-damper exhausts as in the model by Dragon, which is also consistent with the above-mentioned period of time. At that time sPzJgAbt 654 was fighting with Army Group B in the Ruhr Valley against the American and British invaders/liberators, and can be located in the area around Remagen.