[Captain Eddie]

I've got to agree with Spinnaker and FVD. With various businesses providing diecast to the consumer, they have to compete with each other. If one feels Corgi is overpriced for the product they provide, there are plenty of other choices. If Corgi is overpriced (and it seems to me they are), then they will have to re-adjust, or go out of business. He who provides the best product/service for the least price, while making a profit, wins.

The capitalist system, while sometimes messy, and far from perfect, is the best system out there to provide goods and services to the consumer at the best possible price.

[flaps]

Originally Posted by hworth18

Flaps, Where are you getting $59.00??? The most I have seen any 07' 1/72 fighter selling for is $34.99 and I have checked quite a few sites..

Here is a cut and past from 3000 Toys showing there price and msrp, notice the Tiny Hawk for retail $60.00, Corgi has got to doing drugs , I am ok paying $5.00 to $10.00 more for Corgi's better packaging and limited releases, but this is stupid high.

B-25's for $120.00, give me a break, thats nuts.

CORGI - US37102 1/72 Scale $48.59 MSRP $54.00 Late Summer 2007 Arrival

P-51B-5 43-6913 "Shangri-La" of Capt Don Gentile, 336th FS/4th FG, Debden, Essex, March 1944 - From the Aviation Archive - WWII Attack on the Reich - Strategic bombing during World War II was unlike anything the world had previously...[more] [Inches: 6.25 wingspan ]

CORGI - AA36006 1/72 Scale $53.99 MSRP $60.00 winter 2007 Arrival

Bae Hawk T Mk.IA - XX316, No.4 Flying Training School, No.208, 'Shadow' Squadron, RAF Valley, 1994 LIMITED EDITION from The Aviation Archive - With a level of unparalleled force, modern fighter jets and bombers have imposed an...[more] [Inches: 5" Wingspan ]

CORGI - AA35309 1/72 Scale $107.99 MSRP $120.00 Spring Arrival

B-25 Mitchell II - No.180 Squadron, RAF, Northwestern Europe, late 1943 - From the Aviation Archive - WWII Attack on the Reich - Strategic bombing during World War II was unlike anything the world had previously witnessed. The British...[more] [Inches: 11 wingspan ]

Flaps

[DADoser]

I'm not sure anyone is trashing the idea and advantages of the market/capitalism here. (Unless I've misread a post or 2.)

I think the question here, really is:

What is the market value of "collectibility" and Brand recognition? [It looks like Corgi may help us answer that question real soon.]

Personally, while I'm a little obsessive about my diecast collecting - there are definitely $$$ factors/limits in what I'm willing to buy. These are disposable income purchases for me. If it comes down to picking up a decent FOV B-25 for around $40 vs. a Corgi "collectible" one (even though it may be nicer) for $80 - $108 - I'll go with the FOV. Same thing for single engined fighters - i.e. the FOV P-40 B/C - Now that model is NICE as well as accurate enough for my standards. $12 to under $20 for a well done WWII single engined fighter - historically accurate comparable to a Corgi "collectible" single engined WWII fighter at $35 - $45.....that's $15+ that can go toward groceries or rising gas prices.

Also, the other thing I'd suspect is that Corgi's issues may have little to do with THE MARKET and more to do with THEIR Marketing and their past (mis?) management. As seen by all the changes. Official statenments like the one in the original post are much easier to make than "We had a bunch of idiots working for us who didn't pay enough attention to the diecast market; screwed things up; and lost money for our stockholders."

The other thing that we don't know - as consumers, is:
How much is corgi increasing the wholesale cost of their product? Is that cost to dealers increasing in the same percentages as the MSRP? My guess is that they may not be increasing wholesale and MSRP in the same percentages. (I could be VERY wrong here) But if they are, It would seem VERY difficult for dealers to stay in business by NOT increasing their prices at the same percentage as the Corgi MSRP has increased. I know we have had dealers saying they are absorbing these price increases to help keep their prices lower - I'm not accusing them of lying here - but how much, and for how long could they continue doing this and still keep their businesses profitable enough to stay in business? (This is also assuming that Corgi is the large majority of their sales.) I am not trying to come off harsh on dealers here at all. This is a critism/speculation regarding Corgi and Corgi's MSRP - not a shot at how individual dealers set their prices or make their profits.

It just seems like Corgi's MRP are at the very least unrealistic - at the worst, just plain dishonest.

[hworth18]

Originally Posted by flaps

Here is a cut and past from 3000 Toys showing there price and msrp, notice the Tiny Hawk for retail $60.00, Corgi has got to doing drugs , I am ok paying $5.00 to $10.00 more for Corgi's better packaging and limited releases, but this is stupid high.

B-25's for $120.00, give me a break, thats nuts.







Flaps

3000Toys is notorious for overpricing their stuff, but if you want, I can give you a list of 8 other retailers that will sell you an 07 Mustang for $35 or less..

[TopHat]

Originally Posted by pulqui

The sad truth is that, from a commercial standpoint, it is not what the percentage of Zinc content costs on the finished model at a retailer. The original manufacturer of the casting will raise his price according to the price of Zinc and every body else down the price chain will raise their prices based on percentages. So we are stuck with the bill to pay for their increased profits.

If the manufacturer is raising the wholesale price in order to keep up with the rising cost of a raw material (i.e., zinc), then I'm not sure this necessarily equates to "increased profit" for the manufacturer. It is likely an attempt to at least maintain the current level of profit per unit, given the increased cost per unit.

Now, if the manufacturer has a finite amount of money to spend on raw material, it only makes sense to utilize the raw material in those models that have a high demand with consumers.

[DADoser]

Originally Posted by hworth18

3000Toys is notorious for overpricing their stuff, but if you want, I can give you a list of 8 other retailers that will sell you an 07 Mustang for $35 or less..

3000 toys is def. too high (compared to other internet dealers) in what they actually charge for their models.......but,

Are they jacking up the Corgi MSRP as well? If they are, then how do they get away with it - putting out a "lie" - or are they being honest with the Corgi MSRP?

Is there a list that is publicly avail. of Corgi's 2007 (and earlier) MSRPs? Or are these MSRPs only put out to dealers? My local dealer (concerned about Corgi prices, and seriously considering dropping Corgi from his store inventory) has talked to me and others, asking, "Would you pay $45 for a 1:72 scale Corgi Mustang?" I thought he was basing the $45 on MSRP.

[flaps]

I know two dealers that I have dealt with for 7 plus years and both have told me that at some point they will try and shift there sales away from Corgi due to the fact that the 07 late 1st half and 2nd half releases are priced so high and that the discount at wholesale was lowered, so they make less money, if they can get near retail prices. Then on top of that you got dealers willing to list at least the future P-51's for $35.00 when I am told the very best wholesale cost in volume before any shipping is added, is around $30.00 for these babies, and closer to $35.00, there is so little profit if they compete on price, it is not worth being in the business. Leave it to Corgi which I was a big fan of until now, too completely screw up this market, I would be willing to bet some smaller very good dealers would get out of this mess if the profit is too low. Or downsize by dropping the Corgi Line, which is still the only line to offer larger planes like B-25 B-24 B17 HE-111 and many more. I trust what I am being told, as I used to collect 1/400 scale airliners and my main vendor all the sudden had less and less to choose from, when I asked him about the smaller selection, he said Dragon Wings had lowered the discount to dealers so that on a $25.00 model the profit was too low to make any money on selling, and to top that off, there were a few select dealers selling for even less. Good for the consumer until no one can afford to be in the business and the hobby goes away????

Flaps

Originally Posted by DADoser

I'm not sure anyone is trashing the idea and advantages of the market/capitalism here. (Unless I've misread a post or 2.)

I think the question here, really is:

What is the market value of "collectibility" and Brand recognition? [It looks like Corgi may help us answer that question real soon.]

Personally, while I'm a little obsessive about my diecast collecting - there are definitely $$$ factors/limits in what I'm willing to buy. These are disposable income purchases for me. If it comes down to picking up a decent FOV B-25 for around $40 vs. a Corgi "collectible" one (even though it may be nicer) for $80 - $108 - I'll go with the FOV. Same thing for single engined fighters - i.e. the FOV P-40 B/C - Now that model is NICE as well as accurate enough for my standards. $12 to under $20 for a well done WWII single engined fighter - historically accurate comparable to a Corgi "collectible" single engined WWII fighter at $35 - $45.....that's $15+ that can go toward groceries or rising gas prices.

Also, the other thing I'd suspect is that Corgi's issues may have little to do with THE MARKET and more to do with THEIR Marketing and their past (mis?) management. As seen by all the changes. Official statenments like the one in the original post are much easier to make that "We had a bunch of idiots working for us who didn't pay enough attention to the diecast market; screwed things up; and lost money for our stockholders."

The other thing that we don't know - as consumers, is:
How much is corgi increasing the wholesale cost of their product? Is that cost to dealers increasing in the same percentages as the MSRP? My guess is that they may not be increasing wholesale and MSRP in the same percentages. (I could be VERY wrong here) But if they are, It would seem VERY difficult for dealers to stay in business by NOT increasing their prices at the same percentage as the Corgi MSRP has increased. I know we have had dealers saying they are absorbing these price increases to help keep their prices lower - I'm not accusing them of lying here - but how much, and for how long could they continue doing this and still keep their businesses profitable enough to stay in business? (This is also assuming that Corgi is the large majority of their sales.) I am not trying to come off harsh on dealers here at all. This is a critism/speculation regarding Corgi and Corgi's MSRP - not a shot at how individual dealers set their prices or make their profits.

It just seems like Corgi's MRP are at the very least unrealistic - at the worst, just plain dishonest.

[FormerViperDriver]

I'll go out on a limb and make this bold prediction: within 6 months Corgi will lower their prices to adjust to the lowered demand. So will Franklin Mint/Armour.

I'll make another point to clarify something that I should have thought of before: I think most of you arguing for lower Corgi prices are doing it from a strictly "marketing strategy" point of view, and in that case I agree the new prices are probably too high, and Corgi will soon realize it was a mistake. But arguing the prices are too high strictly based on the price of raw materials (or other manufacturing factors) is not in itself very enlightening. The only thing that counts is that Corgi (or whoever) is able to sell all their aggregate product at the price point they want, while keeping their costs as low as possible (the difference is "profit," which they are absolutely justified in maximizing). If they want to "test the waters" with higher prices, it's their prerogative, and if it works, more power to them. If not, it will have shown that they had a bad strategy, and that is all (either way it will NOT have shown that they are trying to "ripp off" or "gouge" anyone).

Personally, I consider myself a serious collector, but I will NOT pay the increased prices. I'm going to wait them out. I do grant that it's easier for me since I collect 1/72 as a secondary scale, but I do have a lot of Corgi models in my collection.

All this has happened before (with both Corgi a few years back, and FM, right when they acquired CDC). It didn't take long for them to come back to more reasonable pricing policies. I predict the same will happen this time. There is even more reason for this to happen now due to vastly increased competition.

FVD

[Raven]

If Corgi continues to raise their prices, my money will be going more and more to the likes of HM, Dragon, and Gemini - as long as their prices remain in the somewhat affordable range. We vote with our money...its just too bad that the retailers may be the ones bearing the brunt.

I think that on several aircraft offerings, other manufacturers put out a better product at a lower price (DM P-51, F4U, P-47 for example) and they have been earning my business. Fancy packaging and collectability aren't real big concerns for me so even though Corgi excels in these areas it is lost on me. The only Corgi purchases I have made lately are sales on unique planes (B-17, B-24, F-86) or the must haves (Swordfish, Typhoon) that have struck me.

[Canucklehead]

Another thing to remember is that the new management team at Corgi has been in place for less than five months. I've seen much smaller businesses take longer than that to change their practices. Like FVD says, in six months the whole scene could be different. The way you scamps are carrying on you'd think they shot your dog, not just marked it up.