[timbo]

Originally Posted by Shamrock

Dragon, even with the loose flap and spindly undercarriage issues are the best Ds. Gemini Bs are superb even with the King Kong' pilots of the early aircraft. Comparing Corgi P-51Ds with Dragon, and Corgi P-51Bs with Gemini is similar to comparing Corgi and Gemini Spitfires IMHO. The Corgi moulds are old, with big joint lines and do not bear comparison with Gemini because of the 6/7 year development difference.

I've pre-ordered Tommy's Dad and the cannon armed RAF MK111. The faults inherent in the Corgi moulds won't bother me too much. Old Crow and the slightly weathered Bud Mahurin are in my collection albeit with faults.Gemini are still the benchmark regarding Mustangs and Spitfires I feel. Vote with your feet on the Corgi P-51B; if you like it, buy it/if not buy Gemini!!

Don't let the "B" off that lightly as an "old mold" - this should be brand new and up to the latest casting standards. To rework the tired "D" to the "B" and then charge what they are charging really is unaceptable.

[HotTrap429]

Originally Posted by timbo

Don't let the "B" off that lightly as an "old mold" - this should be brand new and up to the latest casting standards. To rework the tired "D" to the "B" and then charge what they are charging really is unaceptable.

I said something to this effect a while back and "upset" a few of my fellow collectors who thought I was being unfair to those poor people at Corgi. Brand loyalty not withstanding........ I agree with Timbo! This should have been a completely re-engineered mold.

P.S. Admin - we need either a "tongue-in-cheek" or a "biting-my-tongue" smilie.

[SKUNKY]

Originally Posted by HotTrap429

P.S. Admin - we need either a "tongue-in-cheek" or a "biting-my-tongue" smilie.

Oh that would ruin everything....

[Old Crow]

I stopped in a book store today that had both volumes of Squadron's Detail In Scale for the P-51 (volume 1 is prototype to the B/C model and volume 2 is D model to the end) and spent some time studying and comparing some very detailed line drawings, including reproductions of original production sketches with dimensions.

Measuring from the back of the spinner to the 25% line of the wing, the difference between the B/C and the D model is just 5/16", virtually invisible on a 1/72nd scale model. The position of the forward most portion of the wing root relative to other reference points (canopy, exhaust ports, wheel wells, etc.) appears the same. The shape of the wing leading edge as well as its changing geometry appears the same.

The nose of each model also appears identical, at least seen in profile. I think it is difficult to compare models when they are painted with nose decorations and anti-glare panels which trick the eye and frustrate valid comparison. In effect, other than the canopy (and, in the case of some versions, the absence of the ventral fin foreward of the vertical stabilizer), the models appear identical. The only other architectural difference is the location of a few prominent panel lines.

So, assuming the mould itself is accurate, a D model could, with minor modifications (canopy and the area just aft of the canopy, ventral fin and a few panel lines moved), be used as the basis for a B/C without major reworking, and a B/C model could similarily be used as the basis for a D model. Unfortunately, the D mould Corgi starts with is not correct so they cannot make a decent B/C without reworking the basic silhouette.

I am posting this from memory after studying the drawings for few minutes so I can't vouch for its complete accuracy ( ) but I'm sure some members must have these books and can probably see for themselves and chime in.

[Andrew]

Weren't the engines of the B,C and D laregly the same? I thought main changes were wings, guns, canopy, rear fuselage

[JETFAN]

Well I got my P-51B yesterday. It doesn't look any better in the flesh than from the posted pix. The top of the engine cowling just does not look right. As usual, trying to install the MLGs was frustrating and I had to resort to using Elmers, which I have had to do with most of my Corgi P-51s. They definately need new tooling.
I also got the Corgi overpriced Vampire 5. Apart from a prominent cr#@ppy manufacturing joint line behind the cockpit, it looks just as a Vampire should. I was disappointed that they didn't include drop tanks mounted outboard of the booms as I rarely saw one operating without them unless carrying weapons.. In lieu of tanks, they could carry a 500 lb bomb or two 60lb RPs mounted inboard of the boom under each wing. I watched them on a local range many times doing air to ground firing in the late 1940s/early 50s. I think they could have selected a more colorful aircraft as the all-silver ones had all kinds of unit markings applied, from big code letters to the squadron bars bracketing the tail boom roundels. Perhaps later issues will address these shortcomings....PLEASE CORGI!!!
The fuselage manufacturing joint plus new tail booms lets the Vampire T11 version be an easy conversion. It will be interesting to see if they offer both clear and framed canopies on the T-11 and with or without the gun ports in the nose. They could also do the Vampire NF10 which had the same tail as the Vampire V, but the two seat pod with framed canopy. It operated in the gray/green camouflage.
In passing, I also got the new FOV B-26 and was quite pleased with it once I got it our of the box. The clear plastic-coated wire holding it in was a bear to cut loose as the knot was tied so tightly. I compared the panel lines to a Corgi B-25 and they were no worse. The nose manufacturing joint was a little prominent, but placed at the back of my cabinet, it looks fine. In the shipment was the HobbyMaster A-4B; it is an excellent replica of the Scooter. I'd like to have seen an MER with bombs rather than the Bullpups, so mine sits proudly with the three tanks fitted.
Well that's all my grousing for now; I'm off to McMinnville to see the Spruce Goose etc at their annual air show and fly-in.

[stalag8611]

Old Crow, your followng two paragraphs tells the tale and vindicates what I posted in my original review of the Corgi P-51B. The engine cowling is flat out wrong, pun intended, and it's too bad Corgi doesn't recast the complete P-51 mold.

"Measuring from the back of the spinner to the 25% line of the wing, the difference between the B/C and the D model is just 5/16", virtually invisible on a 1/72nd scale model. The position of the forward most portion of the wing root relative to other reference points (canopy, exhaust ports, wheel wells, etc.) appears the same. The shape of the wing leading edge as well as its changing geometry appears the same.

The nose of each model also appears identical, at least seen in profile. I think it is difficult to compare models when they are painted with nose decorations and anti-glare panels which trick the eye and frustrate valid comparison. In effect, other than the canopy (and, in the case of some versions, the absence of the ventral fin foreward of the vertical stabilizer), the models appear identical. The only other architectural difference is the location of a few prominent panel lines."

[flyXwire]

Originally Posted by Old Crow

I stopped in a book store today that had both volumes of Squadron's Detail In Scale for the P-51 (volume 1 is prototype to the B/C model and volume 2 is D model to the end) and spent some time studying and comparing some very detailed line drawings, including reproductions of original production sketches with dimensions.

Measuring from the back of the spinner to the 25% line of the wing, the difference between the B/C and the D model is just 5/16", virtually invisible on a 1/72nd scale model. The position of the forward most portion of the wing root relative to other reference points (canopy, exhaust ports, wheel wells, etc.) appears the same. The shape of the wing leading edge as well as its changing geometry appears the same.

The nose of each model also appears identical, at least seen in profile. I think it is difficult to compare models when they are painted with nose decorations and anti-glare panels which trick the eye and frustrate valid comparison. In effect, other than the canopy (and, in the case of some versions, the absence of the ventral fin foreward of the vertical stabilizer), the models appear identical. The only other architectural difference is the location of a few prominent panel lines.

So, assuming the mould itself is accurate, a D model could, with minor modifications (canopy and the area just aft of the canopy, ventral fin and a few panel lines moved), be used as the basis for a B/C without major reworking, and a B/C model could similarily be used as the basis for a D model. Unfortunately, the D mould Corgi starts with is not correct so they cannot make a decent B/C without reworking the basic silhouette.

I am posting this from memory after studying the drawings for few minutes so I can't vouch for its complete accuracy ( ) but I'm sure some members must have these books and can probably see for themselves and chime in.

Okay, I really hate to be so anal retentive about this...so I hope you won't misconstrue my reply as such if I may state that I have somewhat of a different opinion and observation in regards to the position of the forward most portion of the wing root relative to other reference points (canopy, exhaust ports, wheel wells, etc.). I've taken some close up shots ( as well as I could, anyway ) of the Dragon P-51D and Gemini Aces P-51B/C to illustrate what I could see as definite proof that the portion of the forward wing root section of each variant are not the same. Please see pictures below for comparison. Of course when you do have these two models in hand for close up comparison, it immediatly jumps at you as being obviously different silhouette. In closing, I do agree with you that Corgi has to basically do a major retooling of their Mustang mould ( which I doubt will ever happen) to render a more accurate silhouette of a B/C variant.

[Old Crow]

Okay, I really hate to be so anal retentive about this...so I hope you won't misconstrue my reply as such if I may state that I have somewhat of a different opinion and observation in regards to the position of the forward most portion of the wing root relative to other reference points (canopy, exhaust ports, wheel wells, etc.). I've taken some close up shots ( as well as I could, anyway ) of the Dragon P-51D and Gemini Aces P-51B/C to illustrate what I could see as definite proof that the portion of the forward wing root section of each variant are not the same. Please see pictures below for comparison. Of course when you do have these two models in hand for close up comparison, it immediatly jumps at you as being obviously different silhouette. In closing, I do agree with you that Corgi has to basically do a major retooling of their Mustang mould ( which I doubt will ever happen) to render a more accurate silhouette of a B/C variant.

Fly, I agree with your points about the differences in the models.

My post was about the real birds, not the models. My point is that there should be no apparent differences between the models, with the obvious exceptions (canopy and upper aft fuselage), based on the silhouettes of the real birds. Based on the drawings I observed and the measurements from the original drawings, there should be no difference between the real B/C and the D. So, if you happened to start with an accurate D model (which the Corgi is not, sadly), you should be able to use the same mold for a B/C, albeit with minor reworking.

Remember also there are some differences in prominent panel lines between the real birds, so, for example, the engine cover dimensions may vary since different engines were used, which may change the apparent relative position of fixed points, such as a wing root, to a panel line.

All of this begs the question, of course, about how well Gemini would do a D model.

[leeG]

Differences between 'B' and 'D' Mustangs

The major difference was the the D was fitted with a bubble canopy. But for our discussion of the Corgi B and D versions, the differences in the wings are of most interest.

Both wings were basically the same, except the D had an increase in area achieved by slightly increasing the surface of the leading edge at the wing roots. The leading edge was extended from the root to just before the main gear pivot. So where the wing leading edge mets the fuselage is farther forward on the D than the B.

If the fuselage firewall panel line is used as the reference, the B wing root should come in just a slightly forward of the firewall, while the D should be farther forward corresponding to the extra length of leading edge extension.

I expect to have examples of all the current Mustang versions by Corgi, Dragon and Gemini sometime early next week for a close inspection. This is one of the things I will be looking at.