[leeG]

Originally Posted by Epapazian

After a while the French substituted sand for the upper surface blue/gray. Looks better to me.

As one with some past experience in camouflage, patterns and colors are adjusted to match the expected background. Backgrounds can change by location or seasons. I expect the French changed from gray to sand as many of their planes headed for North Africa after their surrender.

'Drab' & uninteresting, exactly what one wants from their camouflage, the point being NOT to attract the eye. Unless its diecast!

[Epapazian]

Originally Posted by leeG

As one with some past experience in camouflage, patterns and colors are adjusted to match the expected background. Backgrounds can change by location or seasons. I expect the French changed from gray to sand as many of their planes headed for North Africa after their surrender.

'Drab' & uninteresting, exactly what one wants from their camouflage, the point being NOT to attract the eye. Unless its diecast!

I have to admit that my digital camera has the toughest time getting in focus when I try to snap a picture of French planes in the Khaki, brown and dark bule/gray scheme. Maybe this indicates that this is a better camouflage option----who knows?

[Hornchurch]

Originally Posted by leeG

'Drab' & uninteresting, exactly what one wants from their camouflage, the point being NOT to attract the eye. Unless its diecast!

Oh yeah Lee; I was NEVER for a moment disputing that (Gawd knows I'm knowledgable enough on planes & Camo' schemes after studying for 38 (plus) years (lol) !!!!!!!

The ONLY reason I quoted 'drab & uninteresting' is from a collectors (or, modellers) point of view !!!!!!!!!

After all 'uninteresting' is NEVER a word (gonna) be used by a prospective enemy.

[leeG]

Originally Posted by Hornchurch

Oh yeah Lee; I was NEVER for a moment disputing that (Gawd knows I'm knowledgable enough on planes & Camo' schemes after studying for 38 (plus) years (lol) !!!!!!!

The ONLY reason I quoted 'drab & uninteresting' is from a collectors (or, modellers) point of view !!!!!!!!!

After all 'uninteresting' is NEVER a word (gonna) be used by a prospective enemy.

I knew that, that's why I said "Unless its diecast."

I'd love to have some other camoflage scheems to choose from. Not everybody has Epapazian's talents. Except for IXO and Easy Model, none of the diecast manufacturers seem interested in French birds. A Hawk 75A may be as close as we get, but even that's just a dream.

[Hornchurch]

Originally Posted by leeG

I'd love to have some other camoflage scheems to choose from. Not everybody has Epapazian's talents. Except for IXO and Easy Model, none of the diecast manufacturers seem interested in French birds. A Hawk 75A may be as close as we get, but even that's just a dream.

I'd love to see a Hawk.75 too.

When I was about 10 I built the 'Heller' one (my 1st ever Heller kit).

Interesting that they've got a real-one (a 'flyer') at Duxford, in the 3-Tone scheme (with Grey).

Out of curiousity, was it a case of Northern to Mid-France where they had the Grey in the scheme, & lower down the country they were based (i.e. Mid to Southern France) - where the 'Sand' colour was substituted instead ??????????

Or, did it (as suggested in an earlier post) just start to become incorporated in June '40 when they started to lose hope & loook to basing them in Africa.

In other words = was it 'Regional' (the difference between 'Grey' or 'Sand' in the scheme), or a French Air-Ministry directive which determined whether the triple-tone scheme incorporated 'Grey' or 'Sand' at a GIVEN-DATE ?????????

Epz' I'd like to hear what you found out about these two scheme's during your research !!!!!!

[Cruver Collecter]

Originally Posted by leeG

I knew that, that's why I said "Unless its diecast."

I'd love to have some other camoflage scheems to choose from. Not everybody has Epapazian's talents. Except for IXO and Easy Model, none of the diecast manufacturers seem interested in French birds. A Hawk 75A may be as close as we get, but even that's just a dream.

Not sure why the diecast manufacturers ingore French, Italian and Russian aircraft. I know I would like to see a line of French WWII aircraft produced. I like a broad view of aviation history when it comes to diecast models.

[planenutsfrog]

I can only echo your voice dear CC.

The strict minimum IMHO would be to consider the following types :

France : D520, MS406, Potez 631, 63-11, LeO 451 ;

Italy : Macchi and Fiat fighters ;

USSR : Yak and Lavotchkin fighters, I-16, Il-2, Pe-2.

And of course the Douglas Boston/Havoc in French and Russian markings !!!

[Epapazian]

Regarding the colors used on French aircraft during WW II, it is clear that the Khaki, brown and dark gray scheme used at the outset of the war was very effective for northwest Europe. However I have been noting examples with sand substituted for gray in numerous artists' renditions, decal sheets, and other sources for years. Some of these refer to planes stationed in North Africa or the Middle East, which makes sense. However, this is not always the case. For example, "Flying Colors" by Greene and Swanborough, depicts a MS 406, operating from Toulouse in 1941, with sand or tan, rather than gray. The same reference shows two Dewoitine D.520s based in southern France in May-June 1940, with similar motifs. Again, sand seems more appropriate for this area than dark gray. I'll dig a bit deeper and report what I find out on this.

[Cruver Collecter]

Originally Posted by planenutsfrog

I can only echo your voice dear CC.

The strict minimum IMHO would be to consider the following types :

France : D520, MS406, Potez 631, 63-11, LeO 451 ;

Italy : Macchi and Fiat fighters ;

USSR : Yak and Lavotchkin fighters, I-16, Il-2, Pe-2.

And of course the Douglas Boston/Havoc in French and Russian markings !!!

Now that would be a selection of planes that I would like to have. The French fighters would make for some great looking models and would provide for some real eye catching paint schemes (Italian desert paint schemes would too). The Douglas Boston/Havok would excellent choice for a diecast model, with some real interesting paint schemes. Soviets even used this one as a torpedo bomber, now that would make for an interesting model.

[Berkut76]

Originally Posted by Cruver Collecter

The Douglas Boston/Havok would excellent choice for a diecast model, with some real interesting paint schemes. Soviets even used this one as a torpedo bomber, now that would make for an interesting model.

Try a radar equipped night fighter. Unsuccessful, but a first of its type for VVS/Naval Air Force.

Regards,

Sergey