[Epapazian]

Here are a few of my diecast Luftwaffe bombers--including a number of repaints. Can you ID the planes by manufacturer?

[Louie]

He-111 Corgi
Ju-88 Corgi
Condor Altaya
Arado Atlas
Stuka Hm
Stuka FM
Ju-290 Altaya
Smaller Ju-88 Altaya

[Epapazian]

Originally Posted by Louie

He-111 Corgi
Ju-88 Corgi
Condor Altaya
Arado Atlas
Stuka Hm
Stuka FM
Ju-290 Altaya
Smaller Ju-88 Altaya

Your first six are right on, however I deliberately left out the Altaya JU-290 as there is some question whether it's really a bomber. Also, the little JU-88 is actually a little JU-188 and there's one additional plane to ID---the one with the gray blotches over a green base.

[11SQNLDR]

There is no doubt - the Germans were miles ahead when it came to wartime design and innovation. There are so many subjects for unique and (to me at least) exciting designs for manufacturers to produce in diecast... I just wish more were available in 1/72....

Great looking collection and thanks for sharing!!

[Cardinal]

Originally Posted by 11SQNLDR

There is no doubt - the Germans were miles ahead when it came to wartime design and innovation. There are so many subjects for unique and (to me at least) exciting designs for manufacturers to produce in diecast... I just wish more were available in 1/72....

Great looking collection and thanks for sharing!!

I'm not sure that I fully agree with this- they were undoubtedly innovative with regard to some design issues (e.g. jets and rocketry) but couldn't even design a production heavy bomber that was equivalent to the likes of the Lancaster, B17, B24 or even the superb B29.

Their design and production was fragmented and ego driven. Combined with petty political infighting and little thought of strategy and production implications, they thankfully had a sound recipe for disaster (the Me262 could for example have been mass-produced and operational years before it actually went into service but the German High Command thought that the war would be over quickly and consistently thought at the tactical level when long-term strategic thinking was required.). Instead of concentrating on well proven systems they were constantly looking for wonder-weapons that never materialised in sufficient numbers to make a difference whereas the Allies mass-produced systems that, although not necessarily superior, were suited for winning the war.

Let's face it, the Russian T34 was one of the finest tanks of WWII, which the Germans copied and improved upon with the Panther. Had the Germans mass-produced the Panther and not diverted resources to the ridiculously expensive (each one cost the equivalent of a small Naval Destroyer) and labour intensive Tiger and Koenigstiger, the Allies would have faced a much greater threat. The Germans did make high quality weaponry but wars are also won on the economic front and having a combat tank with high quality components designed to last decades is something of a false economy given the nature of the battlefront at the time ...

[Cruver Collecter]

I just wish Corgi would put out a few of the Dornier bombers, and maybe one of the night fighter variants of the Dornier too.

[Epapazian]

Originally Posted by Cardinal

I'm not sure that I fully agree with this- they were undoubtedly innovative with regard to some design issues (e.g. jets and rocketry) but couldn't even design a production heavy bomber that was equivalent to the likes of the Lancaster, B17, B24 or even the superb B29.

Their design and production was fragmented and ego driven. Combined with petty political infighting and little thought of strategy and production implications, they thankfully had a sound recipe for disaster (the Me262 could for example have been mass-produced and operational years before it actually went into service but the German High Command thought that the war would be over quickly and consistently thought at the tactical level when long-term strategic thinking was required.). Instead of concentrating on well proven systems they were constantly looking for wonder-weapons that never materialised in sufficient numbers to make a difference whereas the Allies mass-produced systems that, although not necessarily superior, were suited for winning the war.

Let's face it, the Russian T34 was one of the finest tanks of WWII, which the Germans copied and improved upon with the Panther. Had the Germans mass-produced the Panther and not diverted resources to the ridiculously expensive (each one cost the equivalent of a small Naval Destroyer) and labour intensive Tiger and Koenigstiger, the Allies would have faced a much greater threat. The Germans did make high quality weaponry but wars are also won on the economic front and having a combat tank with high quality components designed to last decades is something of a false economy given the nature of the battlefront at the time ...

I agree with your assessment. Clearly, Hitler was a totally incompetent leader who allowed his top subordinates to run their fiefdoms without much regard for the overall war effort and precious little coordination. Thus, as you pointed out, aircraft designers were more concerned with out doing each other stylistically, and no one seemed capable of developing a sensible production strategy, modifying it when necessary and seeing that it was carried out. So German pilots were saddled with the BF-109's narrowly spaced undercarriage, which caused numerous landing crashes, because its famous designer stubbornly refused to modify his original specs. And the HE-177 coupled its four engines into paired mountings primarily as artsy design, even though it soon was clear that this caused serious overheating problems.

Still, despite these and many other horror stories, the German aircraft designers came up with an incredible number of innovative ideas. Luckily for us, Hitler was incapable of using their creativity to best effect.

[Cardinal]

Originally Posted by Epapazian

I agree with your assessment. Clearly, Hitler was a totally incompetent leader who allowed his top subordinates to run their fiefdoms without much regard for the overall war effort and precious little coordination. Thus, as you pointed out, aircraft designers were more concerned with out doing each other stylistically, and no one seemed capable of developing a sensible production strategy, modifying it when necessary and seeing that it was carried out. So German pilots were saddled with the BF-109's narrowly spaced undercarriage, which caused numerous landing crashes, because its famous designer stubbornly refused to modify his original specs. And the HE-177 coupled its four engines into paired mountings primarily as artsy design, even though it soon was clear that this caused serious overheating problems.

Still, despite these and many other horror stories, the German aircraft designers came up with an incredible number of innovative ideas. Luckily for us, Hitler was incapable of using their creativity to best effect.

To sum up the German approach - technically and tactically proficient, strategically deficient ...

[jim]

Nice collection you have there Epapasian.

On the subject of the capabilities of the German aircraft industry I think we could post about this one for a long time.

Hugely short sighted and short term planning was one of the major problems faced by the whole German aviation war effort.
Hitler was an idiot and never gave a thought as to how he was going to fight a full scale prolonged war, indeed he never planned for one, FOOL.
Politics killed the Luftwaffe right from the start.

Its only my opinion but I think Ernst Heinkel was a better designer by far than W Messerschmitt.
Heinkel was ahead of Messerschmitt in the field of jet power but was never allowed to finish the development of his designs.
Could have , should have , is the phrase needed here. Heinkels design could have been in full production in 1942, just imagine the problems the Allies would have had coming up against large formations of jet aircraft capable of over 560 mph at that stage of the war !
Also those fighters would have fitted the worlds first ejection seats (and they worked well).
These aircraft would certainly have stopped the daylight bomber offensive by the US.

Heinkel had a similar problem to Kurt Tank, he didn't grovel enough at the feet of the Nazis.

The Luftwaffe at one time were losing more pilots in training flights in the Me 109s than were lost in combat !!

The whole issue is academic really because the Luftwaffe was never intended to be any thing other than support for the army.

In short too much wasted effort and resources on pointless weaponry, ie the V1 and V2 and Greif 177.

Off course even if the Germans had made all the correct moves the Allies would have been left with the terrible decision of using the A bomb or not!

Not a pleasant task.

Now if he had not gone to war with Russia that would have been a whole different game.

[Epapazian]

An excellent analysis, Jim. One, shudders to think what would have happened if Der Fuhrer's mind had cleared enough to allow some semblance of common sense to prevail in the spring of 1941. Say, instead of invading Russia and, six months later, declaring war on the US, Hitler had given Rommel 10 additional divisions, which could have easily been spared, and allowed him to conquer Egypt, Iraq and Saudi Arabia. Add to this an invasion of Malta and Gibraltar, which was also feasible, and Germany gets all of the oil it needs and wins the war---even if the the country's aircraft production plans are a chaotic shambles and its most gifted designers are out of control egotists. The civilized world is fortunate, indeed, that Hitler was such an irrational leader.