[slammin]

I've got a bunch of questions about base colors that f-14's and Century used.

First general chronology: Please correct me if any of this is wrong.
First F-14s used FS16440 light gull grey on top surfaces and FS17875 insignia white on the lower surfaces and control surfaces. This is what is used on Century's jolly rogers airplanes. From delivery until the mid 80's. Correct?
Then switched to FS16440 light gull grey all over. Century's VF-111 falls into this category.
Then (early 90's) switched to a 3 tone bluish-grey scheme with FS35237, FS36320, and FS36375. This is how century's black knights are painted?
Did I miss some? Century's freelancers bird appears to be a different grey, but it's hard to tell. Where does it fit into the above schemes?

Second, I'm toying with the idea of making my own low-viz F-14. I've been looking at the decals for a VF-111 aircraft. They don't mention what color the airplane is painted. It is bundled with miss molly decals, so is this aircraft also FS16440 all over? Any advice for a low -viz candidate would be appreciated. If I could start with one of Century's existing models, that would be a plus.

Chris

[David Hingtgen]

Grey+white was much shorter than that. 1978 was when they started repainting into all-grey. 1979 deliveries (VF-111/VF-51) were all-grey. 1980 is about the latest you'd see any white left on an F-14.

If an F-14 is one color, it is 16440.

Now, you will of course always find a few freaks/experimental schemes (VF-1, VF-2, VF-103 in the mid-80's, VF-213 near the end), but any multi-color low-vis scheme will normally be 35237, 36320, and 36375. (With the 36320 spot outboard of the fins VERY often replaced with 35237)

[slammin]

Thanks for the response David.

So the low viz VF-111 I have pictured should be all gull grey, since it is 1981, before the 3 grey scheme was used.

I'm still trying to figure out how the freelancers F-14 fits in. The grey seems lighter than the black knights airplanes, and its darker than the gull grey.

[David Hingtgen]

Do you own both a Black Knights and Freelancers and know they're different, or just going by pictures?

[edkao]

Originally Posted by slammin

Second, I'm toying with the idea of making my own low-viz F-14. I've been looking at the decals for a VF-111 aircraft. They don't mention what color the airplane is painted. It is bundled with miss molly decals, so is this aircraft also FS16440 all over? Any advice for a low -viz candidate would be appreciated. If I could start with one of Century's existing models, that would be a plus.

If you are planning on doing a low-viz F-14, 16440 is wrong.

If I remember correctly, from the technical manuals.

the first digit is the glossness of the paint. 1 is gloss, 2 is semigloss, 3 is flat.

the second digit is the color.

6 is grey, 7 is white, 5 is blue.

the last 3 digits are light reflectivity index. the amount of light reflected off the painted surface.

875 would be light color, 118 would be a darker color.

example, 36118, Gunship Grey used for AC-130s, flat grey, with a light reflectivity index of 118.

So if you want to do a low vis F-14, it would be 36375 ish. Flat grey, with light reflectivity of 375. medium grey. Or darker flat grey, 36320.

16440 would be gloss grey, and 440. a light grey, you would be bouncing light all over the place. i.e. not low viz.

Hope this helps.

Ed

[slammin]

David,
Yes, I have the Freelancers F-14 and the NF101 Black Knights F-14. They are definetly different. I don't have my camera right now or I'd do a side by side.

The photo's on Century's site show the difference also.

The paint scheme on the Black Knights looks like an exact match for the TPS Scheme. (Picture from HOME OF M.A.T.S. - The most comprehensive Grumman F-14 Reference Work - by Torsten Anft!)
The paint on the Freelancers bird appears to me to be only 2 tones of grey one on the upper surface and one on the lower surface. You can sort of see this on the wing glove area of Century's picture.

[slammin]

Ed,
Maybe I'm using the term low-viz incorrectly. My goal is to have a regular, workhorse F-14 that is not the CAG or CO bird.
The only references I can find only mention that F-14's are either FS16440 and white, all FS16440 or the 3 tone TPS. Can you point me to any references that list other schemes.



I'm guessing that in service the all FS16440 planes quickly faded, or at least lost some of thier shine. If I do the paint scheme that I showed in my first post I might overpray it with some flat just to make it look a little worn.


Chris

[David Hingtgen]

16440 of course does dull. And, 36440 is not utterly dead flat. Fresh, new, 36440 has a bit of shine. How do you tell fresh 36440 from old 16440? Guess.

For the Navy, anything that is not the white-belly scheme, is low-vis. Miss Molly? Low-vis! (with high-vis markings). A scheme does not need to have 36375/36320 to be low-vis (though that's what most people associate with low-vis). That is specifically the tactical paint scheme. (which on most planes is 36375 and 36320, but the F-14 adds 35237). (low-vis can refer to the markings or the camoflage---you can have either in any combination, though I don't think I've ever seen low-vis markings on a high-vis white belly scheme)

As for the Black Knights vs Freelancers color issue: I'd say the factory screwed up. Soon after the very first releases, there was a period where Century's F-14's had some paint color issues, most obviously the engines. Seems it affected the 3-color TPS as well. It was fixed by the Miss Molly release.

As for the famous MATS drawing of the TPS scheme: the PATTERN is right, the colors got swapped around. I've made my own corrected version here:


Notes: The view from above, with the 36320 spots outboard of the fins? That is often omitted, and is 35237 instead. And the side view--the 36320 on the intakes? VERY often omitted, being 36375 like the rest of the intakes. The common, simpler version of the official TPS is 35237 above, 36375 below, and 36320 on the sides of the fins and nose. To see every spot of color applied like in the drawing doesn't happen often, ESPECIALLY with the spot on the intakes.

[zed550]

Originally Posted by David Hingtgen

16440 of course does dull. And, 36440 is not utterly dead flat. Fresh, new, 36440 has a bit of shine. How do you tell fresh 36440 from old 16440? Guess.

For the Navy, anything that is not the white-belly scheme, is low-vis. Miss Molly? Low-vis! (with high-vis markings). A scheme does not need to have 36375/36320 to be low-vis (though that's what most people associate with low-vis). That is specifically the tactical paint scheme. (which on most planes is 36375 and 36320, but the F-14 adds 35237). (low-vis can refer to the markings or the camoflage---you can have either in any combination, though I don't think I've ever seen low-vis markings on a high-vis white belly scheme)

As for the Black Knights vs Freelancers color issue: I'd say the factory screwed up. Soon after the very first releases, there was a period where Century's F-14's had some paint color issues, most obviously the engines. Seems it affected the 3-color TPS as well. It was fixed by the Miss Molly release.

As for the famous MATS drawing of the TPS scheme: the PATTERN is right, the colors got swapped around. I've made my own corrected version here:


Notes: The view from above, with the 36320 spots outboard of the fins? That is often omitted, and is 35237 instead. And the side view--the 36320 on the intakes? VERY often omitted, being 36375 like the rest of the intakes. The common, simpler version of the official TPS is 35237 above, 36375 below, and 36320 on the sides of the fins and nose. To see every spot of color applied like in the drawing doesn't happen often, ESPECIALLY with the spot on the intakes.

the VF-21 FREELANCERS by century does seem to be correct,i have quite a few pictures from japanese publications of this jet.
as Dave knows nothing was ever painted exactly like the scheme layed out.

[David Hingtgen]

I forgot to mention: colors also vary (even if it's the same FS number from the same company). IIRC the military allows +/- 10% from spec when it comes to paint hue/shade. The F-15 is well known and documented to have two completely different shades used for the 36375/36320 combo. The paint itself changed drastically it seems, from the main contractor that made the paint. For years, a good chunk of the F-15's painted in the late 80's looked VERY different than the ones painted previously, despite being painted "correctly" with the right shade of paint.

Since the Freelancers is depicting a plane from almost a decade before the Black Knights, they could easily be from different batches of paint that have quite different hues. (35237 has a ton of variation itself, and it weathers strangely--it is BLUE when new, but GREEN when older--I've personally witnessed 2 different F-14's parked side-by-side, and one was blue, and one was green--though both had obviously been painted with 35237----1 was VF-103, 1 was VF-31) IMHO, "new" batches of 35237 paint are greener than older ones. In Desert Storm pics, you'll see tons of VERY blue planes, but nowadays, you mainly see greenish ones.

Plus, the Black Knights were probably painted in Japan, which could mean they used "locally made" paint or even non-FS-spec colors or something borrowed from the JMSDF. "Close enough" often works when it comes to Navy plane paint. (The USAF is far more finicky it seems). (in WW2, paint specs were literally "one handful of blue pigment #1 to one pint black to one gallon white"---and a handful of course varied)