[Shawn 507]

OK so whats the real difference between all these Wunder-Fliegers? I like the JSF's / XF 23's looks better than the F-22, but none of them really spin my prop. Was watching a show on the JSF that was interesting, but I still cannot justify all the money envolved. Me thinks those boys in blue (AF/Navy) have some sort of deal going with the big aircraft makers. The old "there is always a position for a guy like you on our staff", "provided we get a contract" wink wink, nudge nudge.

[1250ships]

The F-22 is supposed to be the full on air superiority fighter. The JSF or F-35 is to replace all the F-16 and F-18 fighters. The F-22 has the bleeding edge stuff and as such the US has refused to sell it to anyone else. The JSF is not so bleeding edge and is to be shared.

The JSF also will come in three flavors. The "A" model is the standard, land based version. The "B" version is VSTOL capable for the Marines and the British Royal Navy (though it will probably replace other Harriers too). The "C" version is carrier capable with a wider wing span and folding wings for use on US Navy carriers.

All are expensive. Are they worth the cost? Hard to say as no one without a security clearance knows the full capabilities of the aircraft. However these are supposed to replace designs that date back to the late 1960s or early 1970s. The choice is either produce more of those aircraft or buy the new ones. The existing fleet will eventually wear out.

Also in some respects this is the conservative approach. A radical move would be to plan a shift to UAVs. But I'm not sure UAVs are ready to take on all the roles of a plane like the JSF just yet.

[flyXwire]

I would also like to add that the fly-off competition between the YF-22 vs YF-23 ATF (Advanced Tactical Fighter) program preceded the F-35 JSF (Joint Strike Fighter) program.

The F-22 Raptor was a US Air Force next gen requirement/replacement over the F-15 Eagle and tasked for an "advanced air defense and air dominance" role combart aircraft earmarked for USAF use only.

You must have seen the PBS Nova series called "Battle Of The X-Planes" which chronicled the high-tech, high-stakes competition on the Joint Strike Fighter JSF program to create Americas'
newest combat aircraft - the F-35, which will be shared by all three branches according to it's defined requirements. An excellent program and a must have for your aviation library.

[David Hingtgen]

And the YF-23 was the best-looking, fastest, and stealthiest of them all. (With the X-32 being the ugliest by unanimous decision--and likely the slowest)

[STARMAN 352ND]

I can just see it now in a few years ......a F-23 in the Blue Angels colors....
Wishfull thinking...I know.
Although the precise results of the evaluation are not yet public knowledge, it is often claimed that the YF-23 was faster and stealthier than its competitor F-22 but the USAF chose the F-22 due to simply being more conventional, higher subsonic maneuverability, longer range, and better warning systems. Others point out the YF-23's comparatively flawed weapons release mechanism wherein missiles are stacked on racks, and a weapons jam of a lower-positioned missile could prevent the firing of the missile above it. In any case, the decision is still widely debated.

[FormerViperDriver]

Originally Posted by STARMAN 352ND

I can just see it now in a few years ......a F-23 in the Blue Angels colors....
Wishfull thinking...I know.
Although the precise results of the evaluation are not yet public knowledge, it is often claimed that the YF-23 was faster and stealthier than its competitor F-22 but the USAF chose the F-22 due to simply being more conventional, higher subsonic maneuverability, longer range, and better warning systems. Others point out the YF-23's comparatively flawed weapons release mechanism wherein missiles are stacked on racks, and a weapons jam of a lower-positioned missile could prevent the firing of the missile above it. In any case, the decision is still widely debated.

I for one am glad the F-22 won. The YF-23 was not very good looking at all to me. Certainly futuristic/unusual, but not beautiful by any means (particularly viiewed from the sides). However, looks shoud not decide these types of competitions.

But Starman, you are right, the weapons bay mechanism had a lot to do with the decision, but also the F-22 was assessed as less risky for future development (the General Dynamics YF-22 team demonstrated a lot more capability during the demo phase, although the YF-23 did demonstrate everything that was required under the terms of the competition).

One thing that people forget also it maneuvrability at supersonic speeds. Although I don't know for sure how the YF-23 fared in that respect, I do know that vectoring nozzles add a lot to that, and the YF-23 did not have them. That might have been a factor as well.

FVD

[Gunner]

Originally Posted by STARMAN 352ND

I can just see it now in a few years ......a F-23 in the Blue Angels colors....
Wishfull thinking...I know.

Actually, no.

Part of the Blue Angels' mission, above and beyond PR and recruiting, is to be a combat group. So, eventually, when the F-23 is the standard USN combat aircraft, the Blue Angels will be flying it.

[mustangdriver]

I had heard that there are alot of teething problems with the JSF.

[bsmith13]

The planes are expensive, but the ones we have are old, and need to be replaced. Simplified view, perhaps, but the constant upgrades we are doing for F-15s and F-16s are expensive as well. Not as expensive as the new planes, but upgrading the new ones will be far easier and less expensive.

[STARMAN 352ND]

YF-23 re-emerges for surprise bid
Northrop Grumman's "forgotten" advanced tactical fighter leaves museum and could be heading for bomber contest
Northrop Grumman's long-abandoned YF-23A advanced tactical fighter (ATF) is emerging as the possible basis for a surprise contender for the US Air Force's interim bomber requirement.
The company recently retrieved the second of the two YF-23A "Black Widow II" prototypes (PAV-2) from the Western Museum of Flight in Hathorne, California, ostensibly for repainting for display at a forthcoming Northrop Grumman-backed air fair in August. However, the restoration is also thought to include several changes, including new cockpit displays and other possible cosmetic modifications.
Northrop Grumman confirms restoration of the General Electric YF120-powered PAV-2 is taking place, but declines to comment on whether the revived YF-23A is linked to any USAF proposal. But sources close to the studies, which were kicked off by the USAF's recently issued request for information, say Northrop Grumman now includes a YF-23-based "regional" bomber concept among its raft of proposals and that the USAF "is interested".
Until now, the company's offerings are known to include an upgraded B-2, X-47B unmanned combat air vehicle (UCAV) -based studies and possible designs based on its quiet supersonic technology programme. The distinctive, rhomboid-winged YF-23A lost out to Lockheed Martin's YF-22 in the ATF competition in 1991, but proved a valuable technology testbed for Northrop Grumman, which gave it all-aspect stealth. The company says it "drew upon a wide range of experience for its response to the interim bomber RFI, and the YF-23 is one".
Other contenders include a Boeing's B-1R (regional) re-engined bomber studies and a larger D-model version of its X-45 UCAV, while Lockheed Martin is considering various derivatives of the F/A-22. These include single- and two-seat, re-winged and tailless versions dubbed the FB-22, the larger of which would be able to cruise at Mach 1.8 and have 75% of the range of the B-2 carrying up to 30 115kg (250lb) small-diameter bombs. Lockheed Martin is also understood to be offering a variety of other manned designs, including a flying-wing concept.
The interim bomber is intended to bridge the gap between the current bomber fleet and a next-generation aircraft planned for 2037. The present timetable calls for a development effort to start in 2006, with an initial operating capability by 2015.
I remember this story back in 2005.... FVD have you heard the latest on this program ?
JP