[FormerViperDriver]

Spyharpy, welcome to the forum!

I'm really curious if you could elaborate on your comments about the presumed superiority of the YF-23 over the YF-22. It's kind of contrary to the info I have, which is more along the lines that each aircraft had its pros and cons, but the YF-23 had more cons overall (in fact, that's what Paul Metz himself said. He's flown both aircraft). Also, I beg to dissagree about the "flowing lines" of this aircraft, which is full of bumps (particularly the top) and not nearly as clean as the F-22.

Personally, I'm glad the Air Force picked the F-22, just as I'm glad the F-35 won over the F-32.

FVD

[Spyharpy]

Not to start any kind of debate, the YF-23 did excel in many areas over the YF-22 but the YF-23 had its weaknesses as well. It wasn't the *perfect* aircraft. I don't think any aircraft is. I know the YF-22 was more maneuverable but not as fast. I know that many factors contributed to its selection and the Air Force had to make a decision on what will serve them best given the test data and projected cost of each plane. Both aircraft met the Air Force's minimum requirements but given that fact that stealth and speed were emphasized (from my understanding), then the YF-23 was the winner from that perspective.

Here's a link from F-16.net forum that has a couple photos of the restored YF-23 at Northrop taken last year. Scroll down towards the bottom of the page.

I also watched the F-35/F-32 competition. I think the F-32 was more bulky. The huge intakes just made it look very unappealing. If you haven't seen it yet, there's a DVD from Nova called "Battle of the X-Planes." It chronicled the entire competition. Very well done.

[FormerViperDriver]

Originally Posted by Spyharpy

Not to start any kind of debate, the YF-23 did excel in many areas over the YF-22 but the YF-23 had its weaknesses as well. It wasn't the *perfect* aircraft. I don't think any aircraft is. I know the YF-22 was more maneuverable but not as fast. I know that many factors contributed to its selection and the Air Force had to make a decision on what will serve them best given the test data and projected cost of each plane. Both aircraft met the Air Force's minimum requirements but given that fact that stealth and speed were emphasized (from my understanding), then the YF-23 was the winner from that perspective.

Here's a link from F-16.net forum that has a couple photos of the restored YF-23 at Northrop taken last year. Scroll down towards the bottom of the page.

I also watched the F-35/F-32 competition. I think the F-32 was more bulky. The huge intakes just made it look very unappealing. If you haven't seen it yet, there's a DVD from Nova called "Battle of the X-Planes." It chronicled the entire competition. Very well done.

Yes, I have that DVD and it is quite good. I'm also quite familiar with F-16.net, as a former F-16 pilot myself.

Well, on the YF-22 vs YF-23 issue, What you say is fine as far as it goes, it's just the same thing one hears all the time. But I think it's a mistake to think the F-22 was overall inferior to the F-23. And as far as speed is concerned, the YF-22 actually achieved faster supercruise speeds (granted, that's from the unclassified data and may not be the end story), and maximum speed is a moot point since both aircraft would be limited by structural considerations (skin heat) rather than power or drag. But OK, one can argue this all day, without the classified figures it's pretty difficult to assess the truth.

On looks alone, though, I'll take the F-22 any day (personal taste). I will grant that the YF-22 did not look as good at the production version.

FVD

[David Hingtgen]

So just imagine how good a production F-23A would look...

[FormerViperDriver]

Originally Posted by David Hingtgen

So just imagine how good a production F-23A would look...

Well, I won't argue about looks. I just like the F-22 better. To me the F-23 certainly looked interestingly "different," in a futuristic/sci-fi way I suppose, but its not a beautiful jet (though nothing like that ugly beast the X-32).

FVD

[STARMAN 352ND]

This is about the only thing i have of a YF-23 and it's one of my favorites as well.
Daughter got it for me when we were at Disneyland last year.
She also picked up a YF-22 and B-2.
The YF-22 and 23 are 1/72nd scale.
JP

[bandit95]

F-22A !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Love the bird! YF-23 is ok but boys...that one is long gone! DRAGON!!!! We need a raptor!!! Or ten of them!!

[Louie]

Nope too angular not graceful enough for my taste.

[MULE]

Originally Posted by IKONOS

Yes! Especially in Langley markings!

Or the AK markings!

[Canucklehead]

All pictures of the F-22 with the gear down should be outlawed. It's a beautiful plane but when it's on its wheels I'm constantly reminded of the whole cocker spaniel thing that I believe Jim or someone else equally witty thought up...